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ID-FRONTIERS for November 19-25, 2006

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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
 Subject From Date  Time 
 FW: Junkin's Warbler  Geoff Malosh   Sun, 19 Nov 2006  3:25pm 
 Re: Indiana Mystery Gull  Bell, Tyler  Mon, 20 Nov 2006  11:11am 
 A Gull from Finland  Visa Rauste   Mon, 20 Nov 2006  3:11pm 
 Fwd: woodpecker sighting  Rob Jett   Mon, 20 Nov 2006  6:12pm 
 Re: A Gull from Finland  Frode Falkenberg   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  4:15am 
 Ring-necked Duck or hybrid?  Ottavio Janni   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  6:45am 
 Re: Ring-necked Duck or hybrid?  Lee Evans   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  8:04am 
 Re: Ring-necked Duck or hybrid?  Bruce Deuel   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  9:33am 
 Gulls, general aging question  Matt Sharp   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  10:00am 
 Re: Indiana Mystery Gull  Floyd Hayes   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  11:02am 
 Unidentified Jaeger  Hugh McGuinness   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  12:40pm 
 Re: Unidentified Jaeger  Tim Avery   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  12:56pm 
 Re: Unidentified Jaeger  Bruce Deuel   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  12:59pm 
 Re: Unidentified Jaeger  Bruce Deuel   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  1:03pm 
 Re: Unidentified Jaeger  Phil Pickering   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  2:20pm 
 Re: Gulls, general aging question  GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM  Tue, 21 Nov 2006  4:13pm 
 Re: Gulls, general aging question  Martin Reid   Tue, 21 Nov 2006  4:56pm 
 Re: Unidentified Jaeger  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr  Wed, 22 Nov 2006  3:55am 
 Re: Unidentified Jaeger  Lee Evans   Wed, 22 Nov 2006  5:59am 
 Sandwich Tern identification  Norman D.van Swelm  Wed, 22 Nov 2006  3:36pm 
 Aythya duck sp.  Kenneth Rude Nielsen  Fri, 24 Nov 2006  1:16pm 
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.


[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: FW: Junkin's Warbler From: Geoff Malosh <pomarine(AT)EARTHLINK.NET> Date: 19 Nov 2006 3:25pm This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION---- Hi all, I've received a number of off-list messages from people wondering if I heard anything back on my request about Junkin's Warbler. Willie D'Anna sent me the message below with the answer and gave me permission to forward it to the list. It looks like it may be as many as six more months before Cornell finally shares the results with the public. The good news is that they did identify the parents definitively. Geoff Malosh Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania -----Original Message----- From: Willie D'Anna & Betsy Potter Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:48 AM To: Geoff Malosh Subject: Junkin's Warbler Hi Geoff, I saw your question on ID-Frontiers. I spoke briefly with Dave Junkin while looking at the Batavia Wheatear. He told me that he was not at liberty to reveal the results because there was going to be an article in The Living Bird (the Cornell Lab. of Ornith.) about it and they were going to present the photos as a quiz. He said they would not have the answer until the following issue! I recently received an issue of Living Bird and there was nothing in there about it. So, perhaps in three months I will get the article and the answer will follow three months later. Hope I don't die first... Cheers, Willie ---------- Willie D'Anna Betsy Potter Wilson, NY Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Indiana Mystery Gull From: "Bell, Tyler" <belljt(AT)SI.EDU> Date: 20 Nov 2006 11:11am Here's a photo of Shrimpy, the Maryland Kelp Gull, with the underwing fully extended: http://www.fordham.edu/lewis/birds/Kelps/kelp7.JPG The photo of the Indiana bird looks pretty much identical. Small, single mirror on P10, large white trailing edge on the wing, dark triangle on primaries and secondaries. GBBGs have two large mirrors on P9 and P10 which often blend into one large spot not at all like the Indiana bird. Here's another photo, in full sun, which shows there is some difference in gray scale between the primaries and the mantle. On the extended wing, from above, this feature is not as obvious: http://www.fordham.edu/lewis/birds/Kelps/ckelp.JPG This looks like the second photo of the Indiana bird. The mantle looks way too dark, and uniformly so, to have any GBBG ancestry. The two photos also show a similar, wide tertial crescent which is not present on GBBG. Another couple of characteristics that are additional strikes against GBBG are bill and leg color. 3rd year GBBGs might have a Dijon colored leg but they always have a black ring or smudge on the bill. However, to have a bill without any black (fully mature), the legs will be pink. I don't claim to be an expert on gulls but my wife and I did spend considerable time studying the Maryland KEGU as well as the plentiful GBBGs nearby, as Shrimpy was only 10 miles from our house. It looks good to me as a pure KEGU using Shrimpy as a model. Tyler Bell belljt(AT)si.edu California, MD Subject: Indiana Mystery Gull From: Tim Avery <tanager AT TIMAVERYBIRDING.COM> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:27:18 -0700 I submit for your comments, photographs taken by Ken Brock of a mystery Gull from Michigan City, Indiana earlier this November: http://timaverybirding.com/brock_mystery_gull.html Any comments are welcome. Cheers, Tim Avery Indianapolis, IN and Salt Lake City, UT http://www.timaverybirding.com http://www.birdtography.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: A Gull from Finland From: Visa Rauste <rauste(AT)CC.HELSINKI.FI> Date: 20 Nov 2006 3:11pm Dear BIRDWG01 people, I would like to hear comments (on this list or privately) from people familiar with smithsonianus and (preferably) argentatus Herring Gulls, on a first-winter gull photographed in Finland (Northern Europe) in the past week: http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/gulls/jussi2.html http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/gulls/jussi3.html -- Visa Rauste Visa.Rauste(AT)Helsinki.FI, tel +358-9-19144146 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Fwd: woodpecker sighting From: Rob Jett <citybirder(AT)earthlink.net> Date: 20 Nov 2006 6:12pm All, I just received the following forwarded e-mail. It sounds intriguing and don't know what to make of it (and don't want to just ignore it, either). As far as I've been able to find there haven't been any reports of this species in NYS. What about the rest of the US? I may have some time tomorrow to take a look around, if anyone else is in the area it could be worth doing some searching. Good birding, Rob -------------------------------------- ------ Forwarded Message From: Bill Murdoch <murdoch(AT)lifesci.ucsb.edu> Reply-To: murdoch(AT)lifesci.ucsb.edu Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:07:01 -0800 To: info(AT)brooklynbirdclub.org Subject: woodpecker sighting Hullo, I am trying to inform a relevant birding group of a possible European Green Woodpecker seen in Brooklyn Botanic Gardens on Sunday November 12 in the late morning. We were walking along the park path adjacent to the road that separates the park from the Museum. We had no bins with us. A green woodpecker flew into one of the trees on the left of the path. The back of the head was red. It looked to me like a European Green Woodpecker, which I have seen fairly often in the UK, but I am not sure the red covered the top as well as the back of the head (a feature I didn't notice was relevant till I looked up by European bird book back home). I'd be interested in a response to this email, especially an opinion on any other species it might be. Bill Murdoch (Santa Barbara) ------ End of Forwarded Message Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: A Gull from Finland From: Frode Falkenberg <Frode.Falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO> Date: 21 Nov 2006 4:15am Hi! I suppose L. a. smithsonianus may look like this, but the slightly blotchy underparts and too little dark barring on the undertail coverts makes this a non-classical smithsonianus in relation to the variation we see in L. a. argentatus here in coastal Norway. The tail, GC and tertial pattern is not outside the northern Herring Gull variation. Two quite similar birds: http://cyberbirding.no/gull/hg/1w_14.php http://cyberbirding.no/gull/ufo/1w_01.php A dark-bellied arg: http://cyberbirding.no/gull/hg/1w_15.php All the best, Frode Falkenberg http://gull.cyberbirding.no/ Visa Rauste wrote: > Dear BIRDWG01 people, > > I would like to hear comments (on this list or privately) from > people familiar with smithsonianus and (preferably) argentatus > Herring Gulls, on a first-winter gull photographed in Finland > (Northern Europe) in the past week: > > http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/gulls/jussi2.html > http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/gulls/jussi3.html > > -- > Visa Rauste > Visa.Rauste(AT)Helsinki.FI, tel +358-9-19144146 > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html -- Frode Falkenberg Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB Allegaten 41 5007 Bergen Tlf: 55 58 22 25 www.miljolare.no Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Ring-necked Duck or hybrid? From: Ottavio Janni <coeligena(AT)HOTMAIL.COM> Date: 21 Nov 2006 6:45am ----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION---- Hello all, =20 This putative Ring-necked Duck was recently photographed in Liguria, NW Ita= ly: =20 http://www.ebnitalia.it/gallery/moretta_co.htm =20 I have not seen the bird in the field, but some features leave me (and seve= ral other people who have seen the bird or photographs of it) a bit perplex= ed. The main one is head shape, which in the photos never really looks like= the typical head shape of Ring-necked Duck, but rather more like a female = Tufted Duck. The dirty brown wash on the flanks, the apparent lack of the w= hite vertical stripe bordering the black breast, and the rather broad bill = shape are also causes for concern. I know that there are cases of hybridisa= tion involving Ring-necked Duck, and I am wondering if the Italian bird cou= ld be one such individual. I used to see lots of Ring-necked Ducks when I w= as in the U.S., but since they were common and easy to identify I never pai= d much attention to them, so now I can't remember if they can ever look lik= e this (maybe a 2cy male? Or a bird moulting out of eclipse plumage, althou= gh mid-Nov seems very late for that). =20 Any comments are much appreciated. =20 Cheers, =20 Ottavio Janni Italy _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.=A0 Get a free 90-day trial= ! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=3Dwl_wlmail= Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Ring-necked Duck or hybrid? From: Lee Evans <LGREUK400(AT)AOL.COM> Date: 21 Nov 2006 8:04am ----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION---- This is an odd looking bird, especially the brown colouring on the neck, but I have never seen a Ring-necked Duck hybrid with such a perfect bill pattern. I suspect that it is an adult drake Ring-necked Duck still moulting out of eclipse, but I do agree that it is rather late for this. The brightness of the eye certainly indicates that the bird is an adult rather than a juvenile making its plumage that more interesting. Vagrant juvenile Ring-necked Ducks in Britain do not begin to resemble 'adult-type Ring-necked Ducks' until at least December and often not until February Good Birding Always Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine & Ornithological Consultant Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) Email Address: LGREUK400(AT)aol.com Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ (http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders; also Mobile Discos (Nighthawk Roadshow); CD Vinyl & DVD Sales; Haynes Car Manuals For Sale; Prestige Car Delivery; UK Courier and Road Traffic Officer) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Ring-necked Duck or hybrid? From: Bruce Deuel <BDEUEL(AT)DFG.CA.GOV> Date: 21 Nov 2006 9:33am I fully agree with Lee's comments, but am most puzzled by the head shape, which should look like that of the female in the 2 bottom pictures. I've never noticed a head shape like this bird in the many Ring-necked Ducks I see here in northern California, but I can't offer an explanation for it, either. The bird does appear to be an adult male Ring-necked Duck coming out of eclipse. Cheers, Bruce Deuel Redding, California USA >>> Lee Evans <LGREUK400(AT)AOL.COM> 11/21/2006 7:04 AM >>> This is an odd looking bird, especially the brown colouring on the neck, but I have never seen a Ring-necked Duck hybrid with such a perfect bill pattern. I suspect that it is an adult drake Ring-necked Duck still moulting out of eclipse, but I do agree that it is rather late for this. The brightness of the eye certainly indicates that the bird is an adult rather than a juvenile making its plumage that more interesting. Vagrant juvenile Ring-necked Ducks in Britain do not begin to resemble 'adult-type Ring-necked Ducks' until at least December and often not until February Good Birding Always Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine & Ornithological Consultant Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) Email Address: LGREUK400(AT)aol.com Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ (http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders; also Mobile Discos (Nighthawk Roadshow); CD Vinyl & DVD Sales; Haynes Car Manuals For Sale; Prestige Car Delivery; UK Courier and Road Traffic Officer) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Gulls, general aging question From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG> Date: 21 Nov 2006 10:00am Does anyone on the list have a strong opinion or know of any research showing whether bare part coloration or plumage pattern are better indicators of age in gulls? Outside of primary shape it seems to me that plumage has more potential for variation given the energy costs associated with molt. But other than the simplified answer of 'hormones' I am not sure how changes in bare parts, and especially iris color, are regulated and to what extent diet and or health relate to those changes. I guess part of my hope in this question is to get a sense of whether bare-part color or plumage is a more reliable way to age birds in photos. Thanks Matt Matt Sharp Collection Manager VIREO/ANS 1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy. Philadelphia PA 19103 http://vireo.acnatsci.org (tel.) 215-299-1069 (fax) 215-299-1182 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Indiana Mystery Gull From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM> Date: 21 Nov 2006 11:02am One strike against the Indiana bird being a "pure" Kelp Gull is the heavy streaking on the head. Floyd Hayes Hidden Valley Lake, CA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Unidentified Jaeger From: Hugh McGuinness <hmcguinness(AT)ROSS.ORG> Date: 21 Nov 2006 12:40pm This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION---- I would appreciate comments on the identity of a Jaeger found 75 miles south of Shinnecock Inlet (Suffolk Co., NY) on 9 September 2006 by John Shemilt. Photos can be seen at http://www.ross.org/~hmcguinness/EEBirds/CurrP/unkjaeger.htm =20 Hugh =20 Hugh McGuinness The Ross School 18 Goodfriend Dr. East Hampton, NY 11963 631-907-5229 (no messages) 631-697-2099 (cell) =20 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Unidentified Jaeger From: Tim Avery <tanager(AT)TIMAVERYBIRDING.COM> Date: 21 Nov 2006 12:56pm Oh does this bring back memories for anyone else on the list? I would say this bird is a little more straightforward and looks good for Long-tailed Jaeger in my opinion. The two white primary shafts along with the bill seem to call out LTJA! Cheers, Tim Avery Indianapolis, IN and Salt Lake City, UT http://www.timaverybirding.com http://www.birdtography.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Unidentified Jaeger From: Bruce Deuel <BDEUEL(AT)DFG.CA.GOV> Date: 21 Nov 2006 12:59pm This is a group I have much trouble with, but shouldn't Long-tailed Jaeger show a nice contrast between dark secondaries and lighter coverts, which I don't see here? >>> Tim Avery <tanager(AT)TIMAVERYBIRDING.COM> 11/21/2006 11:56 AM >>> Oh does this bring back memories for anyone else on the list? I would say this bird is a little more straightforward and looks good for Long-tailed Jaeger in my opinion. The two white primary shafts along with the bill seem to call out LTJA! Cheers, Tim Avery Indianapolis, IN and Salt Lake City, UT http://www.timaverybirding.com http://www.birdtography.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Unidentified Jaeger From: Bruce Deuel <BDEUEL(AT)DFG.CA.GOV> Date: 21 Nov 2006 1:03pm Okay, that was my humble opinion, now I'm even humbler, as I realize that character may only apply to adults? Cheers, Bruce Deuel Redding, CA >>> Bruce Deuel <BDEUEL(AT)DFG.CA.GOV> 11/21/2006 11:59 AM >>> This is a group I have much trouble with, but shouldn't Long-tailed Jaeger show a nice contrast between dark secondaries and lighter coverts, which I don't see here? >>> Tim Avery <tanager(AT)TIMAVERYBIRDING.COM> 11/21/2006 11:56 AM >>> Oh does this bring back memories for anyone else on the list? I would say this bird is a little more straightforward and looks good for Long-tailed Jaeger in my opinion. The two white primary shafts along with the bill seem to call out LTJA! Cheers, Tim Avery Indianapolis, IN and Salt Lake City, UT http://www.timaverybirding.com http://www.birdtography.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Unidentified Jaeger From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)CHARTER.NET> Date: 21 Nov 2006 2:20pm http://www.ross.org/~hmcguinness/EEBirds/CurrP/unkjaeger.htm Classic Long-tailed head shape - skull appears to be quite short and rounded rather than elongated, forehead/bill angle appears very steep in all shots, figure 5 shows (apparently) diagnostic for L-t pinched look to the face between the eyes where it meets the bill, overall flight profile is comparatively blunt. Also good for L-t - relatively compact and narrow body/wings, 2 white P-shafts, and (on my monitor) tail covert barring appears cold and stark. Also if I recall correctly the paler patch on the lower breast between the solidly dark upper breast and more filled-in belly is also supposed to be a L-t mark on young birds, not typically shown by Parasitic. Cheers, Phil Pickering Lincoln City, Oregon philliplc(AT)charter.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Gulls, general aging question From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM Date: 21 Nov 2006 4:13pm ----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION---- Hi Matt and the rest of the gang: Ooh, what a poser! I really don't like any particular aspect of gull appearance as any more reliable an ageing criterion in white-headed gulls. Eye color is notoriously variable, at least for the first couple years of life. Bill color and pattern seems exceedingly variable, too, in the first 2-3 years of age for most species. And, finally, plumage pattern is incredibly variable. I look at the problem as multivariate, usually going with the age that is best supported by multiple features. Of course, what we really need is more and more extensive studies of known-age birds to get a better feel for individual variation. Tony Leukering Brighton, CO Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Gulls, general aging question From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET> Date: 21 Nov 2006 4:56pm Dear All, I think that all students of gulls have to wrestle with this issue, and from what I've been able to figure (from the wisdom of others plus study of my own), there is no single feature that is reliable. More-so, most features are about as reliable/unreliable as each other. But I would suggest that one element may, on average, be the most reliable indicator of age: The pattern of the primaries. These are the most expensive, energy-wise, feathers on any gull, I would guess that they have a longer "gestation" period than other feathers. I think that the type of pattern that eventually appears on a flight feather (retrices, secondaries and primaries) is governed by a complex amalgam of overall health, condition of the in-place feather for that sheath, food supply, ambient conditions, and hormone levels - all of which can affect exactly when the replacement feather forms in the sheath. I can't offer any logical explanation, but my gut tells me that the primaries will be the least subject to those variations, due to the expense involved. I know of an example of three British HERGs banded together from the same parents - these birds were controlled four years later, and if memory serves me, one looked like a third-cycle, one like a fourth-cycle, and one like an adult - primaries and all. Nevertheless, I personally use the primaries when I'm struggling with a bird; I know I'll be wrong sometimes, but I reckon I'll be wrong less often than if using any other feature.. I'd be interested in the thoughts of others on this - thanks. Martin -- Martin Reid San Antonio, Texas mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net http://www.martinreid.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Unidentified Jaeger From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR> Date: 22 Nov 2006 3:55am the pale breast patch, grey breast band and pale neck collar are diagnostic of intermediate Long tailed according to the Olsen book. The long tail projection is equally diagnostic, in addition to the characters already mentioned by others. If they could all come like that... P. Pierre-André Crochet CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive 1919, route de Mende 34293 Montpellier cedex 5 France tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile) + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office) fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38 pierre-andre.crochet(AT)cefe.cnrs.fr -----Message d'origine----- De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Phil Pickering Envoyé : 21 November 2006 22:11 À : BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Unidentified Jaeger http://www.ross.org/~hmcguinness/EEBirds/CurrP/unkjaeger.htm Classic Long-tailed head shape - skull appears to be quite short and rounded rather than elongated, forehead/bill angle appears very steep in all shots, figure 5 shows (apparently) diagnostic for L-t pinched look to the face between the eyes where it meets the bill, overall flight profile is comparatively blunt. Also good for L-t - relatively compact and narrow body/wings, 2 white P-shafts, and (on my monitor) tail covert barring appears cold and stark. Also if I recall correctly the paler patch on the lower breast between the solidly dark upper breast and more filled-in belly is also supposed to be a L-t mark on young birds, not typically shown by Parasitic. Cheers, Phil Pickering Lincoln City, Oregon philliplc(AT)charter.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html -- passerelle antivirus du campus CNRS de Montpellier -- -- passerelle antivirus du campus CNRS de Montpellier -- Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Re: Unidentified Jaeger From: Lee Evans <LGREUK400(AT)AOL.COM> Date: 22 Nov 2006 5:59am ----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION---- Hi Hugh First of all let me congratulate you on a fine selection of photographs - excellent stuff. Secondly, I see no doubt that your bird is an intermediate morph juvenile LONG-TAILED SKUA - it shows the entire suite of features allowing confirmation of this to be made, all of which have been excellently summarised by previous writers Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine & Ornithological Consultant Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) Email Address: LGREUK400(AT)aol.com Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ (http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders; also Mobile Discos (Nighthawk Roadshow); CD Vinyl & DVD Sales; Haynes Car Manuals For Sale; Prestige Car Delivery; UK Courier and Road Traffic Officing) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Sandwich Tern identification From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl> Date: 22 Nov 2006 3:36pm Radioactive Robins has been updated with a Sandwich Tern section where an attempt is made to bring clarity in the identification of the American race acuflavida versus the Old world race sandvicensis. Have a look at: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/ Please feel free to respond. All the best, Norman Deans van Swelm Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ] Subject: Aythya duck sp. From: Kenneth Rude Nielsen <kenneth.r.nielsen(AT)netfugl.dk> Date: 24 Nov 2006 1:16pm Hi Please take a look at the pictures of an aythya duck sp. It was discovered by Copenhagen Birder Rasmus Strack few days ago. It is still present in a lake near by Copenhagen. All comments are very welcome. http://netfugl.dk/pictures.php?species_id=936&country_id=1&photographer_id=236&pics_section=&picture_category_id=&rare_bird=&picdate_year=2006&picdate_month=&picdate_day=&order_by=&order=&page_size=25&id=listpictures&search=1&language=uk Best regards Kenneth Rude Nielsen Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

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