B-Mail(sm): ID-FRONTIERS for January 7-13, 2007

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ID-FRONTIERS for January 7-13, 2007

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Subject From Date Time

fruit picking gulls Norman D.van Swelm Sun, 7 Jan 2007 3:58pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Norman D.van Swelm Sun, 7 Jan 2007 4:44pm
Re: fruit picking gulls Kenn Kaufman Sun, 7 Jan 2007 5:21pm
troublesome Everglades scaup =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mark_ Sun, 7 Jan 2007 5:44pm
Re: fruit picking gulls GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM Sun, 7 Jan 2007 5:49pm
Re: fruit picking gulls Liis Veelma Sun, 7 Jan 2007 5:54pm
Re: fruit picking gulls Chris Tessaglia-Hyme Sun, 7 Jan 2007 6:00pm
Re: fruit picking gulls Noel Wamer Sun, 7 Jan 2007 6:05pm
Re: troublesome Everglades scaup GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM Sun, 7 Jan 2007 6:09pm
Re: fruit picking gulls Stephen Hult Sun, 7 Jan 2007 6:09pm
fruit picking gulls Harlow Bielefeldt Sun, 7 Jan 2007 6:27pm
Re: troublesome Everglades scaup Mark Faherty Sun, 7 Jan 2007 6:47pm
Iowa Redpoll Mark Brown Sun, 7 Jan 2007 7:51pm
Re: fruit picking gulls Woundedmallard67(AT)AOL Sun, 7 Jan 2007 8:07pm
Fw: fruit picking gulls Chuck Carlson Sun, 7 Jan 2007 9:10pm
Archilochus hummingbird photos,,,Again =?windows-1252?Q?Joh Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:15pm
fruit picking gulls Eddie Chapman Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:10pm
Re: fruit picking gulls =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alain Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:30pm
Re: Interesting gull in Michigan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr Mon, 8 Jan 2007 4:19am
Re: "Glaucous-winged" Gull in Gloucestershire Lee Evans Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:48am
Re: Glaucous-winged age Lee Evans Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:14am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Matt Sharp Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:19am
Re: Glaucous-winged age Dick Newell Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:34pm
RE=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A0:?= Glaucous-winged age =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:46pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Visa Rauste Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:49pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Mars Muusse Mon, 8 Jan 2007 1:08pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Norman D.van Swelm Mon, 8 Jan 2007 2:57pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Dick Newell Mon, 8 Jan 2007 3:32pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Dick Newell Mon, 8 Jan 2007 3:38pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age Norman D.van Swelm Mon, 8 Jan 2007 4:34pm
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM Mon, 8 Jan 2007 8:10pm
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Kenn Kaufman Mon, 8 Jan 2007 9:35pm
Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull) Frode Falkenberg Tue, 9 Jan 2007 5:02am
Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull Martin Reid Tue, 9 Jan 2007 5:21am
Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull) Mars Muusse Tue, 9 Jan 2007 5:34am
Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr Tue, 9 Jan 2007 5:50am
Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull) Frode Falkenberg Tue, 9 Jan 2007 5:52am
Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull) Mars Muusse Tue, 9 Jan 2007 6:23am
documentation of WP Glaucous-winged Gull(s) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr Tue, 9 Jan 2007 6:28am
Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull Phil Pickering Tue, 9 Jan 2007 6:52am
The Trondheim mystery gull; Caspian, Herring, California? Frode Falkenberg Tue, 9 Jan 2007 8:48am
Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull Dick Newell Tue, 9 Jan 2007 9:38am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Floyd Hayes Tue, 9 Jan 2007 9:49am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Kevin McGowan Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:07am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Shaibal Mitra Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:30am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Lee Sterrenburg Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:40am
Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull Norman D.van Swelm Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:54am
Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull) Harry Lehto Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:17pm
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Harry Lehto Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:27pm
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Kevin Karlson Tue, 9 Jan 2007 5:29pm
"Vagrancy" and other confusing terminology -- LONG Alan Wormington Tue, 9 Jan 2007 9:04pm
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Alvaro Jaramillo Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:42am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Wayne C. Weber Wed, 10 Jan 2007 2:10am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Martin Reid Wed, 10 Jan 2007 6:01am
Vagrants Chris Hill Wed, 10 Jan 2007 6:24am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Jamie Chavez Wed, 10 Jan 2007 7:11am
vagrancy Smith, Michael Wed, 10 Jan 2007 7:59am
Re: Vagrancy and juv dispersal idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU Wed, 10 Jan 2007 9:11am
On vagrancy Ian A. McLaren Wed, 10 Jan 2007 9:39am
Re: On vagrancy Lethaby, Nick Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:24am
vagrants as colonists (?) in MA James H. Barton Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:27am
Re: On vagrancy Matt Sharp Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:34am
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Wayne C. Weber Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:54am
Re: On vagrancy Alan Contreras Wed, 10 Jan 2007 1:20pm
Re: On vagrancy Norman D.van Swelm Wed, 10 Jan 2007 4:04pm
Re: vagrancy =?windows-1252?Q?Jim Wed, 10 Jan 2007 4:55pm
Re: On vagrancy Laurent Raty Wed, 10 Jan 2007 5:27pm
A recent "vagrant" to ponder Alan Wormington Wed, 10 Jan 2007 9:01pm
Re: On vagrancy David Muth Wed, 10 Jan 2007 9:02pm
Re: On vagrancy Bruce Mactavish Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:47am
Re: On vagrancy Robert Wallace Thu, 11 Jan 2007 5:11am
Re: On vagrancy Alex Lees Thu, 11 Jan 2007 6:46am
Re: On vagrancy Shaibal Mitra Thu, 11 Jan 2007 8:13am
Re: On vagrancy Norman D.van Swelm Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:16am
Re: On vagrancy David Muth Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:26am
Dowitcher in Britain Kevin McGowan Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:54am
Re: Dowitcher in IRELAND Killian Mullarney Thu, 11 Jan 2007 1:01pm
On Broad-billed Hummingbird Vagrancy David Muth Thu, 11 Jan 2007 6:27pm
canus or kamtschatschensis? rsheil Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:02am
canus canus or...Kam or...heinei??? James H. Barton Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:22pm
Re: Dowitcher in IRELAND Paul & Andrea Kelly Fri, 12 Jan 2007 1:12pm
Re: canus canus or...Kam or...heinei??? James P. Smith Fri, 12 Jan 2007 1:35pm
Re: canus or kamtschatschensis? julian hough Fri, 12 Jan 2007 1:40pm
canus canus or...Kam or...heinei - why consider 2nd-year? James H. Barton Fri, 12 Jan 2007 3:47pm
Re: canus or kamtschatschensis? Norman D.van Swelm Fri, 12 Jan 2007 4:17pm
Re: canus or kamtschatschensis? Julian Hough Fri, 12 Jan 2007 4:35pm
Re: canus or kamtschatschensis? Frode Falkenberg Fri, 12 Jan 2007 5:05pm
Re: canus or kamtschatschensis? Norman D.van Swelm Fri, 12 Jan 2007 6:45pm
Re: canus or kamtschatschensis? Koen Verbanck Sat, 13 Jan 2007 3:00am
A long weekend in SE Arizona--Photos Bill Hubick Sat, 13 Jan 2007 2:11pm
Re: The Trondheim mystery gull; Caspian, Herring, California? Norman D.van Swelm Sat, 13 Jan 2007 2:46pm
Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy Peter W. Post Sat, 13 Jan 2007 4:39pm
Re: A long weekend in SE Arizona--Photos (DISREGARD) Bill Hubick Sat, 13 Jan 2007 7:34pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: fruit picking gulls
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 3:58pm

Never seen gulls picking fruit? Then please have a look at:

http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/radioactive%20robins_files/gibraltar-fuengirola-dec07-jan2007/larus%20atl%20gibraltar%20picks%20olives.htm

However, if you did come across similar behaviour then let us know please.
Norman

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 4:44pm

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Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
  Alvaro Jaramillo wrote: >Your comment about me having little faith in nature
is funny, but it does not explain the reasoning behind your original statement.
   I was pointing out that your comment about the patterns you see with ringed
birds "indicating that migration is hereditary" is not necessarily true, the
birds could be just following other birds and it would result in the same
pattern you are seeing.

  The pattern you describe of the distribution of ringed hybrid birds therefore
does not differentiate between the two hypotheses:

  1) migration is hereditary 

  2) migration is not hereditary (=environmental). 
   

  Like everything else in life, and in nature/nurture arguments, it is probably
a combination of the two (a third hypothesis). But your use of the data to say
that it indicates that hypothesis 1 is "indicated" is incorrect.

   

  That is all I wanted to point out. <

  When I wrote that 'when young gulls fledge they are fully equipped to lead an
independent life!', I was quite serious as I am convinced that gulls do not
follow other gulls in order to reach their destination during migration. For
starters post-breeding dispersal by juvenile gulls is different from older
immature and adult gulls from which they are no longer dependant after fledging.
 During migration you see plenty solitary gulls flying over the sea in the
expected direction without another gull in sight. Due to the nature of their
dispersion BTW the young birds are the ones most likely to get lost during
extreme weather and to end up in exotic places. Not because there is something
wrong with their genes but because they have no fixed wintering site yet!

  Cheers, Norman

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: Kenn Kaufman <kenn.kaufman(AT)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 5:21pm

Hi Norman,
Thanks for sharing the photos of the Atlantic Gulls picking olives while in 
flight.

In the southwestern USA, on the lower Colorado River (where it forms the 
boundary between California and Arizona), Ring-billed Gulls have been seen 
on a number of occasions hovering to pluck dates from the date palms planted 
in groves along the river.  I have seen this myself at least a couple of 
times.  I believe this behavior may be mentioned in the book on Birds of the 
Lower Colorado River Valley, by Ken Rosenberg et al., although I don't have 
that book at hand right at the moment to check.  Date palms are not native 
to that region, so this has be a behavior that the gulls have learned in 
recent decades.

Kenn Kaufman
Rocky Ridge, Ohio

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Subject: troublesome Everglades scaup
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mark_Faherty?= <msfaherty(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 5:44pm

This scaup, which is a lone bird at Eco Pond in Everglades National Park, is
causing consternation in south Florida, where Lesser is expected and Greater
is quite rare. 

Photos:
http://www.tropicalaudubon.org/tasboard/messages/13586.html
http://www.tropicalaudubon.org/tasboard/messages/13687.html
http://www.tropicalaudubon.org/tasboard/messages/13698.html
http://www.tropicalaudubon.org/tasboard/messages/13695.html

Folks are leaning towards Greater, as was I, but I am not especially
convinced either way from these photos anymore. It certainly looks more
Greater-ish, but the more I look at photos and read discussions about
mystery scaup, the less certain I become.

Mark Faherty
Homestead, FL

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 7 Jan 2007 5:49pm

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Hi Norman and the rest of us:
 
Nick Komar published a short note (and pictures) on this behavior in  
Colorado:
 
Komar, N. 2002. Ring-billed Gulls feeding on Russian-Olive fruit. Journal  of 
the Colorado Field Ornithologists 36:32-34.
 
Enjoy,
 
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: Liis Veelma <lveelma(AT)autobahn.mb.ca>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 5:54pm

On September 27, 2005 I saw both adult and immature Ring-billed Gulls 
Larus delawarensis and Herring Gulls L. argentatus (or by some 
taxonomies American Herring Gulls L. smithsonianus) hovering to pick 
the ripe fruit of mountain ash (rowan) Sorbus americana or S. decora 
on the north shore of Lake Superior near Rossport, Ontario, Canada. 
There was a plentiful crop that fall in the region, and a few gulls 
kept working a small clump of shrubby trees from late afternoon until 
almost sunset. There were approximately 20 gulls in the group, but I 
could not tell if  just a few specific individuals were picking or if 
all the birds were taking turns eating and loafing. Gulls are not very 
efficient fruit pickers and it struck me as being a lot of effort for 
small gains. It was a fascinating event to watch, though, especially 
against the backdrop of a dramatic sunset and beautiful scenery.

Liis Veelma
Winnipeg Manitoba Canada

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: Chris Tessaglia-Hymes <cth4(AT)cornell.edu>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 6:00pm

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Over the past several years, on at least three different occasions, I 
have observed Ring-billed Gulls plucking crabapples (/Malus sp./) from 
ornamental trees during the late fall. The trees used are planted in the 
main parking lots of Ithaca College campus and also at the Cayuga Mall 
parking lot, both of Ithaca, New York. This gull feeding behavior has 
included: plucking fruits from the trees while on the wing, landing in 
the trees and plucking, and foraging for dropped fruits beneath the 
trees. I suspect my observations were each hit-or-miss, in that these 
birds may likely use these fruits annually as a food source during a 
specific window of time. It appears that a small group of gulls can 
easily clean off a small 6' tree in a matter of hours. Visiting the same 
site the next day has resulted in no gulls and no fruit. Ring-billed 
Gull is a common year-round species for Ithaca, New York.

Sincerely,
Chris T-H

Chris Tessaglia-Hymes
Ithaca, New York

Kenn Kaufman wrote:
> Hi Norman,
> Thanks for sharing the photos of the Atlantic Gulls picking olives 
> while in flight.
>
> In the southwestern USA, on the lower Colorado River (where it forms 
> the boundary between California and Arizona), Ring-billed Gulls have 
> been seen on a number of occasions hovering to pluck dates from the 
> date palms planted in groves along the river.  I have seen this myself 
> at least a couple of times.  I believe this behavior may be mentioned 
> in the book on Birds of the Lower Colorado River Valley, by Ken 
> Rosenberg et al., although I don't have that book at hand right at the 
> moment to check.  Date palms are not native to that region, so this 
> has be a behavior that the gulls have learned in recent decades.
>
> Kenn Kaufman
> Rocky Ridge, Ohio
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

-- 
=============================================
Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes, Research Assistant
Bioacoustics Research Program, Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road, Ithaca, New York 14850
Voice: 607-254-2418, FAX: 607-254-2460
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp mailto:cth4(AT)cornell.edu
=============================================

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 6:05pm

I have frequently observed Laughing and Ring-billed gulls feeding on the 
ripe fruit of cabbage palms (Sabal palmetto).  It is quite site to see 
them hovering around the palms and plucking the fruit.

Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, Florida

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Subject: Re: troublesome Everglades scaup
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 7 Jan 2007 6:09pm

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Hi all:
 
I assume that those concerned about the ID of the scaup in question doesn't  
really revolve around Greater vs. Lesser Scaup, because females of the two  
species share bill coloration and general pattern.  The only aspect of the  bill
coloration that seems at all odd for Greater (or Lesser) Scaup is that it  is 
mostly blackish, rather than paler and bluer.  The head shape is perfect  for 
Greater.  More importantly, so is the bill shape.  To me  the following 
features of this bird's bill support an ID of Greater Scaup  and refute an ID of
Lesser Scaup:
 
1) depth -- the bill base from top to bottom occupies more than half the  
height of the head in Greater Scaup and in the bird in question (Lesser's bill
base occupies less than half that height, possibly due to the higher, more  
peaked crown)
 
2) width at base vs. that at tip -- Greater Scaup features a bill that  
expands distally resulting in a wider tip than base (such as seems true of the
bird in question); Lesser's bill is more parallel-sided
 
3) concavity -- Greater Scaup has a bill that is deeply concave underneath  
such that a head-on view would show an upside-down 'U' much deeper than would a
 Lesser; though the angles of the pictures are not great for illustrating 
this  feature, the bird in questions seems to me to have a Greater-like
concavity
 
As far as head shape, it is unfortunate that no picture was posted that  
showed the bird either head-on or back-on, as I have found that the big-jowled
appearance of Greater (a la that of Pied-billed Grebe) is quite  distinctive.
 
If the question is whether the bill coloration could be due to an infusion  
of genes from some other duck species, well, the beast still looks like a  
Greater Scaup to me.
 
Enjoy,
 
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: Stephen Hult <stevehult(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 6:09pm

Norman:

Here in Maryland I have often seen flocks of Ring-billed Gulls hovering to 
feed on ripe persimmons in the fall.

Stephen Hult
Edgewater Maryland 

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Subject: fruit picking gulls
From: Harlow Bielefeldt <Harlowbiel(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 6:27pm

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"Occasionally eat dates, cherries, blueberries, strawberries."=20
Ryder, J. P. 1993. Ring-billed Gull. In The Birds of North America,  No. 33=20
(A. Poole, P. Stettenheim, and F. Gill, Eds.). Philadelphia: The Academy  of=
=20
Natural Sciences; Washington, DC: The American Ornithologists=E2=80=99 Union=
.
=20
Omnivorous and omnipresent.  h
  =20

Harlow  Bielefeldt
Waukesha County
Brookfield,  WI

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Subject: Re: troublesome Everglades scaup
From: Mark Faherty <msfaherty(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 6:47pm

There was no serious discussion about the bill color
or any species other than scaup - the bill color looks
normal for female scaup, sort of dark gray with a
paler tip. The question is, while the bird indeed
looks like a Greater, whether the head and bill shape
in these few snapshots and angles could be considered
reliable enough to rule out Lesser Scaup, the far more
likely species in this area. I was hoping for a
head-on shot as well, but this is all we've got so
far. 
Thanks, 
Mark

--- GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM wrote:

> Hi all:
>  
> I assume that those concerned about the ID of the
> scaup in question doesn't  
> really revolve around Greater vs. Lesser Scaup,
> because females of the two  
> species share bill coloration and general pattern. 
> The only aspect of the  bill 
> coloration that seems at all odd for Greater (or
> Lesser) Scaup is that it  is 
> mostly blackish, rather than paler and bluer.  The
> head shape is perfect  for 
> Greater.  More importantly, so is the bill shape. 
> To me  the following 
> features of this bird's bill support an ID of
> Greater Scaup  and refute an ID of 
> Lesser Scaup:
>  
> 1) depth -- the bill base from top to bottom
> occupies more than half the  
> height of the head in Greater Scaup and in the bird
> in question (Lesser's bill  
> base occupies less than half that height, possibly
> due to the higher, more  
> peaked crown)
>  
> 2) width at base vs. that at tip -- Greater Scaup
> features a bill that  
> expands distally resulting in a wider tip than base
> (such as seems true of the  
> bird in question); Lesser's bill is more
> parallel-sided
>  
> 3) concavity -- Greater Scaup has a bill that is
> deeply concave underneath  
> such that a head-on view would show an upside-down
> 'U' much deeper than would a 
>  Lesser; though the angles of the pictures are not
> great for illustrating 
> this  feature, the bird in questions seems to me to
> have a Greater-like  concavity
>  
> As far as head shape, it is unfortunate that no
> picture was posted that  
> showed the bird either head-on or back-on, as I have
> found that the big-jowled  
> appearance of Greater (a la that of Pied-billed
> Grebe) is quite  distinctive.
>  
> If the question is whether the bill coloration could
> be due to an infusion  
> of genes from some other duck species, well, the
> beast still looks like a  
> Greater Scaup to me.
>  
> Enjoy,
>  
> Tony Leukering
> Brighton, CO
> 
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> 

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Subject: Iowa Redpoll
From: Mark Brown <markb249(AT)excite.com>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 7:51pm

Birders,  

Thanks to all of you who have responded publicly and privately to my request for
 the ID of the redpoll at Brenton Arboretum in Dallas county, central Iowa.  Not
 surprisingly, the opinions have been pretty much split down the middle.  Many
more birders have now gone to view the bird, as it has been reliable every day
since it was initially found in mid-December.   Again, here's the link to the
photo gallery of the redpoll:

http://www.iowabirds.org/photo-gallery/

Click on the "ID Help Needed" folder, where the number of photos has increased
since my initial post from 8 to 22 photos.  There is much more work to be done
with this bird to determine its ID.  The more viewers the better, so if any of
you are coming through Iowa sometime soon, let me know and I will send you
directions.  Thanks so much!

Mark Brown
Iowa City 

_______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: Woundedmallard67(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 7 Jan 2007 8:07pm

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

 

Hey Everybirdy, 
 
  Interesting topic, as I've recently witnessed this  myself, observing 
Ring-billed Gulls.  They were eating the berries off  of Sabal Palms here in 
Titusville, Florida.  One thing that struck me was,  as glutinous as gulls may
be
perceived to be by some, these birds spent all of  about 5 to 10 minutes on 
these particular tree tops.  Couldn't help but  wonder if perhaps the berries 
might just be some sort of digestive aid rather  than a meal.
  A few images to share can be found  here:
_http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766611_ 
(http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766611) 
 
_http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766615_ 
(http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766615) 
 
_http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766619   

See you out there!

Thomas J. Dunkerton
Titusville,  Florida

_ (http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766619) 
_www.pbase.com/boidpikchas_ (http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas)  
(http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/image/72766619) 

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Subject: Fw: fruit picking gulls
From: Chuck Carlson <chuckcmt(AT)NEMONTEL.NET>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 9:10pm

> Here at Ft. Peck, Montana Ring-billed Gulls regularly pick fruit from 
> Russian olive trees when there is enough of a breeze to help them stay in 
> place over the fruit. They can be seen doing this in the spring when there 
> is little else to feed on and also in late summer when the new crop is 
> ripe.
>
> Chuck Carlson
> Ft. Peck   MT
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:58 PM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] fruit picking gulls
>
>
>> Never seen gulls picking fruit? Then please have a look at:
>>
>>
http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/radioactive%20robins_files/gibraltar-fuengirola-dec07-jan2007/larus%20atl%20gibraltar%20picks%20olives.htm
>>
>> However, if you did come across similar behaviour then let us know 
>> please.
>> Norman
>>
>>
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>>
> 

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Subject: Archilochus  hummingbird photos,,,Again
From: =?windows-1252?Q?John_Mariani?= <jmariani(AT)GT.RR.COM>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 10:15pm

I've posted some more photos of an Archilochus hummingbird that is 
wintering at our feeders in Lumberton (SE Texas). They can be viewed at: 
http://redknot.blogspot.com/
All of the new photos are of the same bird, taken on the morning of 
January 5th. I would welcome any comments or opinions as to this bird's 
identity. Some features would seem to favor Ruby-throated, but I'm not 
completely convinced.  

I had posted 4 photos back in December, and 2 of those photos may have 
been of a different bird (wing tips in a couple of the earlier pictures 
appear to be more blunt and curved than in this more recent series).

- John Mariani

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Subject: fruit picking gulls
From: Eddie Chapman <echapman(AT)ONLINE.NO>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 11:10pm

Hallo all,
Norman, here in Norway I have seen Common Gull picking cherries and actually
landing in the top of the cherry trees to do so.

Regards,
Eddie Chapman. Voss, Norway.
Birding/Environmental News From Norway
http://birdwatch.brinkster.net/index-filer/Page18328.htm

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Subject: Re: fruit picking gulls
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alain_FOSS=C9?= <alfosse(AT)WANADOO.FR>
Date: 7 Jan 2007 11:30pm

Le 8 janv. 07 � 07:10, Eddie Chapman a �crit :

> Norman, here in Norway I have seen Common Gull picking cherries and  
> actually
> landing in the top of the cherry trees to do so.

Near Saumur, Maine-et-Loire, Western France, Black-headed Gulls Larus  
ridibundus are known to take cherries from the trees too.

Best regards.

============================================
Alain Foss�, LPO Anjou, Montreuil-Juign�, France
47� 31' 34" N, 0� 35' 43" W
<alfosse at wanadoo.fr>
My digiscoping
<http://www.digimages.info/>
My French List of the Birds of the World
<http://perso.orange.fr/listeoiseauxmonde/>
My bird society
<http://www.lpo-anjou.org/>
============================================

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Subject: Re: Interesting gull in Michigan
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 4:19am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Dear Friends,
=20
Both birds do not sem to fit YLG of any form.=20
=20
The second bird (from Volusia County) has a wing tip pattern which exclude =
all forms of YLG in my opinion. Add to this yellowish (instead of yellow) l=
egs, quite cold upperparts (without the bluish tinge I associate with YLG, =
but beware of colour rendition on computer screen), Herring Gull like struc=
ture, and broad white trailing edge to wing, I think we can exclude safely =
YLG.
A broad white trailing edge is a feature I associate with vegae + birulai a=
nd mongolicus. Yellowish legs are possible for both vega (birulai) and mogo=
licus. I don' t have a clear idea of what these forms look like but don't k=
now how to exclude them... At first sight (pictures in Olsen and Larsson) n=
othing seems terribly wrong.
=20
I agree with previous comments that the Salem bird is not a good candidate =
for YLG either, even for birds from the Atlantic populations. I'm not going=
 to throw any further hybrid hypothesis into the discussion. Oh yes, i will=
: HG X LBBG? HG X YLG? HG X Vega?=20
Let's catch them all, and in a few (tens of) years from now we'll be able t=
o identify them from multilocus DNA analyses...=20
=20
=20

Pierre-Andr=E9 Crochet=20
CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive=20
1919, route de Mende=20
34293 Montpellier cedex 5=20
France=20
tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile)=20
     + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office)=20
fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38=20
pierre-andre.crochet(AT)cefe.cnrs.fr=20

=20

________________________________

De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01@L=
ISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Robert Wallace
Envoy=E9 : 06 January 2007 23:28
=C0 : BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Interesting gull in Michigan

Greetings - last March we found a gull that is very similar to this Michiga=
n bird at the dump in Volusia County (Daytona Beach) FL, on the central Atl=
antic coast.  Mantle color was darker than all of the surrounding HEGUs, in=
termediate between them and graellsii LBBGs.  Leg color was pale yellow. Th=
ere was some light streaking in the crown, when normally pure YLGUs should =
be pure white.  Another interesting feature was the string of pearls on p5-=
8, normally associated with Vega gulls, but which with yellow(ish) legs are=
 not discussed anywhere in the literature that I can find, and YLGUs are no=
t described to have this primary pattern either.  A hybrid between LBBG and=
 HEGU was never considered; is this just a yellow-legged HEGU (but with a d=
arker mantle?), or a YLGU x ? mix.

To help confuse the issue, I have posted photos at the following link:

http://www.pbase.com/chnuts/volusia_dump_gull_with_yellow_legs

Thanks for any comments,

Bob Wallace
New Smyrna Beach FL

----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 3:15:25 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Interesting gull in Michigan

Interesting gull.  Resembles a number of birds we call Lesser
Black-backed Gull x Herring Gull in Newfoundland.  Knowing orbital ring
colour and especially wing tip pattern would say a lot.

The legs do not look yellow enough even considering the photos are all
on the under exposed side. The head streaking, which should be gone even
on the later moulting races (e.g. Azorean) of Yellow-legged Gull in
early January, rarely extends onto the neck on any population of
Yellow-legged Gull.

The upperparts colour looks fine for YLGU.  The relatively thick
brightly coloured bill with red of gony bleeding to upper mandible is
good for YLGU. It can occur and is not that rare in smithsonianus
Herring Gulls.  Although head shape is highly variable among individual
gulls depending on mood and posture, this bird looks relaxed, the domed
head shape doesn't feel right for YLGU. The head shape in combination
with less than full chested look typical of YLGUs gives this a Herring
Gull shape overall.

Head streaking on smithsonianus and LBBG is typically heavier than this
but I see many examples of both species with similar head streaking
during the peak period of head streaking December and January.

I'd throw this in the bin labelled 'Suspect Lesser Black-backed Gull X
Herring Gull'.=20

Bruce

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Allen Chartier
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:30 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Interesting gull in Michigan

Birders,

Not being much of a gull person, I'm a bit hesitant to post this as I'll

only be able to answer questions about what this bird looked like, and
not=20
participate in any further discussions. An interesting gull has been
found=20
at the Salem Twp. landfill, Washtenaw Co., Michigan, and has initially
been=20
labeled a probable Yellow-legged Gull, but in reviewing many internet=20
photos, it would appear perhaps indistinguishable from hybrids between=20
Herring and Lesser Black-backed. It would also appear that there is
complete=20
overlap in all characters between pure YLGU and hybrid LBBGxHERG. All of
the=20
photos of hybrids we've found are from Europe, involving argenteus HERG,
so=20
we don't really know what a LBBG cross with a smithsonianus HERG would
look=20
like. How are pure YLGU identified with certainty in Newfoundland? Only
the=20
individuals with screaming yellow legs?

A few photos (no spread wing shots are available - whatever that would
tell=20
us) are posted at:

> http://www.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/se_mich/photos.html <http://www.umich=
.edu/%7Ebbowman/birds/se_mich/photos.html>=20

Allen Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI  48141
Website: http://www.amazilia.net
Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Every day, the hummingbird eats its own weight in food.
You may wonder how it weighs the food. It doesn't.
It just eats another hummingbird.
---Steven Wright=20

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Subject: Re: "Glaucous-winged" Gull in Gloucestershire
From: Lee Evans <LGREUK400(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 10:48am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

 
In a message dated 06/01/2007 21:12:16 GMT Standard Time, upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET 
writes:

If I recall rightly, the UK's only Varied Thrush was one 
of those rare (1 in 500? 1 in 1000? - anyone?) forms that is white 
where the orange would normally be found.  This proved no obstacle to 
it being accepted  onto the British List (correct me if I'm wrong).

Hi Martin
 
Yes, the Varied Thrush was one of those extremely rare pale variants and was 
accepted, mainly due to the fact it turned up at an excellent locality which 
has regularly recorded North American vagrants, and at the same time other 
species were occurring and at the time, was extremely rare in captivity.
 
All the very best  

Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist
Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) 
Email Address: LGREUK400(AT)aol.com
Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ 
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) 

8 Sandycroft Road
Little Chalfont
Amersham
Buckinghamshire
England
HP6 6QL
Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157
Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629
(Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in 
Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North 
America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and
other
related publications; Bird Tours for Birders; also Mobile Discos (Nighthawk 
Roadshow); CD Vinyl & DVD Sales; Haynes Car Manuals For Sale; Prestige Car 
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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: Lee Evans <LGREUK400(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 11:14am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Norman
 
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. If you are saying that I have 
got it wrong then I quote from 'The Birds of the Western Palearctic Concise 
Edition' page 752.
 
''Glaucous-winged Gull: Switzerland: bird ringed July 1969 Vancouver Island, 
Canada, found Zurichsee, November 1969; record not accepted as genuine vagrant 
(probably caught up in an undercarriage of aircraft).''
 
If you (or anyone for that matter) Knows any differently about this record, 
kindly let me know  

Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist
Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) 
Email Address: LGREUK400(AT)aol.com
Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ 
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) 

8 Sandycroft Road
Little Chalfont
Amersham
Buckinghamshire
England
HP6 6QL
Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157
Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629
(Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in 
Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North 
America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and
other
related publications; Bird Tours for Birders; also Mobile Discos (Nighthawk 
Roadshow); CD Vinyl & DVD Sales; Haynes Car Manuals For Sale; Prestige Car 
Delivery; UK Courier and Road Traffic Officing)

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 11:19am

I have been enjoying the thread on the Gloucestershire GWGU.

Regarding the age I have nothing concrete to add, but in general
given the importance and energetic costs of molt I would expect that
the older an individual bird gets the more scheduled molt will become
as seems to be the case in all gulls which when reproductively active 
must relegate molt to the constrained time between rearing young and 
migrating and surviving a winter (at least here in the temperate zone).

So from at least from a hypothetical standpoint one expects greater 
variation in molt in 2nd cycle bird than 3rd cycle, and hence a more uniform
appearance to third yr birds then 2nd.

Also regarding genetics and vagrancy, I wonder if considering the tendency 
towards wandering to be an 'aberration" is always accurate.

In the Oct. issue of the AUK there is a paper by Kevin Winker and Christin L
Pruett
on migration and speciation in Catharus thrushes. 2 interesting conclusions in
that paper
were that the migratory group of Catharus thrushes are not nearest relatives and
 apparently
the genus has evolved migration 4 separate times.

So while aberrations (reverse migration is an example) and random chance surely
play a role
in vagrancy it may also be possible that wandering itself has a genetic basis
and that vagrancy
plays an important role in survival/speciation. So rather than be considered an
aberration
which implies a one time non-repeatable event which would tend to be selected
against it is
"normal" for some species to put themselves in situations where weather or other
 external
factors puts them in odd places. This also jibes with Ned Brinkley's Changing
Seasons musing
in the last North American Birds issue - the notion that the "lingerers"
"accidentals" "rarities"
are pioneers rather than dead-enders. Gulls in general would seem to fit the
mold of a species
vagrancy could be a benefit rather than an accident given the distance they are
able to travel
and how adaptable they are.

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)ZEN.CO.UK>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 12:34pm

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Three points:
1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] European
records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the same BWPi
Concise there are 2  records from:
Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
(Both records under review)
I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds, they woul=
d
have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely dependable
observer who took meticulous notes =AD but even then ....

2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up in
Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly origin
for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe they all came
over the top!

3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi
[http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ] occurs fairly
regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north. Whereas the
Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and distinctive forms
(Kumlien=B9s, Olympic, Nelson=B9s Gull), usually we dismiss them boringly as
=B3Pale Herring Gull=B2 or =B3Glaucous Gull hybrid=B2, so I suggest that we
should
name this form =B3Van Swelm=B9s Gull=B2.
I have a nice example of this taxon here:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=3D462

Dick
Cambridge, UK

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Subject: RE=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A0:?= Glaucous-winged age
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 12:46pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi Dick (and others),
=20
Both records (which are thought to refer to the same individual by many) ha=
ve been accepted.=20
=20
The Canary records have been placed in cat D by the Spannish RC.
The Moroccan record is fully accepted by the Moroccan RC.
=20
I know there are pictures of the bird in Essaouira (taken by Theo Bakker as=
 far as I remember).=20
Can't remember about the Spannish record.
=20
These are the only WP records so far (the Swiss record is not accepted due =
to uncertainties on the circumstances or the recovery).
=20
I agree with all your other comments...
=20
Cheers
=20
Pierre-andr=E9 Crochet
=20

________________________________

De: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification de la part de Dick =
Newell
Date: lun. 08/01/2007 20:34
=C0: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age

Three points:
1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] European =
records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the same BWPi Conci=
se there are 2  records from:
Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
(Both records under review)
I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds, they woul=
d have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely dependable =
observer who took meticulous notes - but even then ....

2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up in E=
urope, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly origin f=
or the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe they all came =
over the top!

3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi [http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20w=
ebsite/gullsp06.html ] occurs fairly regularly here if we get cold enough w=
eather from the north. Whereas the Americans are very good at assigning nam=
es to hybrid and distinctive forms (Kumlien's, Olympic, Nelson's Gull), usu=
ally we dismiss them boringly as "Pale Herring Gull" or "Glaucous Gull hybr=
id", so I suggest that we should name this form "Van Swelm's Gull".
I have a nice example of this taxon here:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=3D462

Dick
Cambridge, UK

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: Visa Rauste <rauste(AT)CC.HELSINKI.FI>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 12:49pm

Dear BIRDWG01,

> Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995

a paper with detailed description and photographs about this
Glaucous-winged Gull is published in Dutch Birding 5/2001, p 271-274.

-- 
   Visa Rauste
   Visa.Rauste(AT)Helsinki.FI, tel +358-9-19144146

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: Mars Muusse <marsmuusse(AT)WANADOO.NL>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 1:08pm

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Hi Dick,

 

I think we have to be careful calling birds like the one you mentioned
as hyperboreus x argentatus (hypergentatus or 'Viking Gull' suggested by
Richard Millington). Breeding Larus argentatus, away from presumed
hybridization grounds, may also show limited and aberrant dark patterns
in the primaries.

 

A few years ago, I came across a bird in S Sweden, looking pretty much
like your bird, taken in consideration that it was only August when I
took the picture. It was completely juvenile, and I can image that half
a year later, it must have come close to the pattern in your bird.

I uploaded a picture here:

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm

 

Thus, I think Van Swelm's Gull indeed is just a pale Herring Gull ;-)

 

Sorry, the website is still under construction for other plumages.

 

Cheers,

 

Mars Muusse

 

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dick Newell
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:35 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age

 

Three points:
1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted]
European records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the
same BWPi Concise there are 2  records from:
Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
(Both records under review)
I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds, they
would have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely
dependable observer who took meticulous notes - but even then ....

2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up
in Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly
origin for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe
they all came over the top!

3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi
[http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ] occurs fairly
regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north. Whereas the
Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and distinctive
forms (Kumlien's, Olympic, Nelson's Gull), usually we dismiss them
boringly as "Pale Herring Gull" or "Glaucous Gull hybrid", so I suggest
that we should name this form "Van Swelm's Gull".
I have a nice example of this taxon here:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=462

Dick
Cambridge, UK

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 2:57pm

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  No Lee, your citation is correct but as you can see it says that it was
'probably caught up'. So pure speculation and no proof whatsoever that the bird
arrived by Easyjet and therefore there is no reason not to accept the record as
genuine. In the light of the present discussion it would have been nice to see a
 picture of the remains of this bird.
  Cheers, Norman 

  Lee G R Evans wrote: >I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. If you are
 saying that I have got it wrong then I quote from 'The Birds of the Western
Palearctic Concise Edition' page 752.

  ''Glaucous-winged Gull: Switzerland: bird ringed July 1969 Vancouver Island,
Canada, found Zurichsee, November 1969; record not accepted as genuine vagrant
(probably caught up in an undercarriage of aircraft).''

  If you (or anyone for that matter) Knows any differently about this record,
kindly let me know <

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)ZEN.CO.UK>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 3:32pm

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Thank you to the 9 people who put me right in that the Atlantic records of
Glaucous-winged Gull were well documented with photographs published in
Birding World magazine and Dutch Birding. It is surprising that there are n=
o
pictures anywhere on the web =AD or are there?

In reply to Mars comment, on the subject of Van Swelm=B9s Gull: doubtless
these come from somewhere far north, perhaps the Kola Peninsular. Until
someone looks at the DNA of these things, we will not know whether these
plumage traits were evolved under the same selection pressures as Glaucous
Gull, or whether they were derived from Glaucous Gull  - I could believe
either hypothesis.

Dick
Cambridge, UK

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)ZEN.CO.UK>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 3:38pm

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On 8/1/07 21:57, "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL> wrote:

>> So pure speculation  and no proof whatsoever that the bird arrived by
Easyjet

For once you are right Norman, as far as I know, Easyjet has never flown
from the west coast (or Japan) to Switzerland.
Dick

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 4:34pm

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Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
  Dick Newell wrote: >In reply to Mars comment, on the subject of Van Swelm's
Gull: doubtless these come from somewhere far north, perhaps the Kola
Peninsular. Until someone looks at the DNA of these things, we will not know
whether these plumage traits were evolved under the same selection pressures as
Glaucous Gull, or whether they were derived from Glaucous Gull  - I could
believe either hypothesis.<
  I am sorry to spoil your cosy little party but Martin showed the wrong bird,
still, it pleases me to see my birds have such stimulating effect.
  Cheers, Norman

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 8 Jan 2007 8:10pm

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Hi all:
 
I heartily endorse Matt's comments about vagrancy not necessarily being a  
selected-against, aberrant trait of wayward individuals.  The situation  with 
Black Redstart (is that right?) wintering in Great Britain and quite a few  
less-well documented examples suggest that vagrancy, while death to most  
individuals, may be a survival mechanism for species.  It just happens WAY  too
often
to be a complete dead end; one would think that after all these years,  if it 
weren't adaptive, vagrancy would be a LOT less frequent.  And that's  
considering just the vagrancy that we birders (and ornithologists and the
average
Joe) DETECT.  I would surmise that, even in fairly well-worked  portions of the
globe, we find only a miniscule percentage of real vagrants --  possibly less 
than 0.01.
 
Sincerely,
 
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Kenn Kaufman <kenn.kaufman(AT)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 8 Jan 2007 9:35pm

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The idea that vagrants may be pioneers rather than dead-enders is a good =
one -- so good, in fact, that it's a classic.  It was first seriously =
proposed, as far as I know, in 1922, in an essay by Joseph Grinnell (who =
was definitely not your average Joe) published in The Auk.  This classic =
essay, "The Role of the Accidental," is available online at a few =
places, including here:=20

http://www.wku.edu/~smithch/biogeog/GRIN1922.htm

This makes essential reading for anyone interested in bird vagrancy (and =
aren't we all?).  Grinnell's brilliance as a field ornithologist in =
California during the early years of the twentieth century foreshadowed =
the impressive exploits of McCaskie, Stallcup, and others in the same =
state a few decades later. =20

Kenn Kaufman
Rocky Ridge, Ohio

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
From: Frode Falkenberg <Frode.Falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 5:02am

Mars and others,

I wonder how <http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm> can 
be labeled "highly unlikely to be a hybrid"? The characteristics does 
not fit any known young plumage in 1cy argentatus.

 From the same page I can read: "This bird still frequented the nest 
site in SW Sweden...". Did it hatch in southern Sweden? Do you think 
that is bad or good for a hybrid? See a.o. 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/1cy_02.php> from the southern tip 
of Norway.

This type of gull typically arrives in the southern half of Norway from 
November onwards, and we label them hybrids (maybe "Viking Gull" is a 
better name, I think so ;-)). They do not look like the nearctic 
Nelson's Gulls, but they have (at least) one other species as a parent. 
A bird from March 2006 is quite similar to Mars's bird, only a little 
paler: <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_28.php>. Is this 
also a bird wich is highly unlikely to ba a hybrid? Or what about: 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_26.php>;? I think the 
differences in "Viking Gulls" only emphasize the rate of genetic 
dilution through introgression. Where to draw the line? Probably when 
you have come to the point where plumage traces of one of the original 
parents is not visible any more.

More about our Viking Gulls at: 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ind_ufo.php> (included is a large 
variety of what we suspect are Vikings).

All the best,

Frode Falkenberg, Norway

Mars Muusse wrote:
> Hi Dick,
> 
>  
> 
> I think we have to be careful calling birds like the one you mentioned 
> as hyperboreus x argentatus (hypergentatus or �Viking Gull� suggested by 
> Richard Millington). Breeding Larus argentatus, away from presumed 
> hybridization grounds, may also show limited and aberrant dark patterns 
> in the primaries.
> 
>  
> 
> A few years ago, I came across a bird in S Sweden, looking pretty much 
> like your bird, taken in consideration that it was only August when I 
> took the picture. It was completely juvenile, and I can image that half 
> a year later, it must have come close to the pattern in your bird.
> 
> I uploaded a picture here:
> 
> http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm
> 
>  
> 
> Thus, I think Van Swelm�s Gull indeed is just a pale Herring Gull ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry, the website is still under construction for other plumages�
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  
> 
> Mars Muusse
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Dick Newell
> *Sent:* Monday, January 08, 2007 8:35 PM
> *To:* BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
> 
>  
> 
> Three points:
> 1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] 
> European records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the 
> same BWPi Concise there are 2  records from:
> Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
> Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
> (Both records under review)
> I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds, they 
> would have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely 
> dependable observer who took meticulous notes � but even then ....
> 
> 2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up 
> in Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly 
> origin for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe 
> they all came over the top!
> 
> 3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi 
> [_http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ]_ occurs 
> fairly regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north. 
> Whereas the Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and 
> distinctive forms (Kumlien�s, Olympic, Nelson�s Gull), usually we 
> dismiss them boringly as �Pale Herring Gull� or �Glaucous Gull hybrid�, 
> so I suggest that we should name this form �Van Swelm�s Gull�.
> I have a nice example of this taxon here:
> http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=462
> 
> Dick
> Cambridge, UK
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 

-- 
Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.miljolare.no

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 5:21am

Dear All,

>
>Norman Wrote:
>I am sorry to spoil your cosy little party but Martin showed the 
>wrong bird, still, it pleases me to see my birds have such 
>stimulating effect.
>Cheers, Norman

Sorry about that; here is the correct one, as Norman has informed me 
(I had chosen based on the dates I have; maybe I got them mixed-up):
http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp05.html

Cheers,
Martin

>
>
>
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>
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-- 
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio, Texas
>mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
>http://www.martinreid.com

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
From: Mars Muusse <marsmuusse(AT)WANADOO.NL>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 5:34am

Hi Frode,

Paler birds are not uncommon in Holland either, about in the same period
as they are in S Norway. And, like many other people, we sometimes have
to speculate about both their ID and origin. The bird photographed in S
Sweden by mid-August only demonstrates that you don't have to wait until
mid-winter for such birds to turn up. That's the only point I wanted to
make. 
But this very early date has some implications for at least ID and
origin I think, although that's speculative as well as the bird was not
ringed as pullus. 
However, I do believe it is a local bird from S Sweden, born in
Gotenborg harbour. I also believe that's not where one would consider
potential hybridization grounds for argentatus x hyperboreus.
Then: 1+1=3 -> If this individual was born in S Sweden, and if that's
not where hyperboreus breed, then it has to be a pale argentatus. Ergo
A: some argentatus may show pale primary patterns. Ergo B: these birds
do not necessarily come from far north.

That's all speculative of course. But I encourage (even more) ringing in
such places (the bird standing next to this pale individual was actually
ringed, and guess, was ringed as pullus several weeks before observation
at this location ;-).
See: http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/da53945aug.htm

Cheers, Mars

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frode Falkenberg
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:02 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)

Mars and others,

I wonder how <http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm> can

be labeled "highly unlikely to be a hybrid"? The characteristics does 
not fit any known young plumage in 1cy argentatus.

 From the same page I can read: "This bird still frequented the nest 
site in SW Sweden...". Did it hatch in southern Sweden? Do you think 
that is bad or good for a hybrid? See a.o. 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/1cy_02.php> from the southern tip 
of Norway.

This type of gull typically arrives in the southern half of Norway from 
November onwards, and we label them hybrids (maybe "Viking Gull" is a 
better name, I think so ;-)). They do not look like the nearctic 
Nelson's Gulls, but they have (at least) one other species as a parent. 
A bird from March 2006 is quite similar to Mars's bird, only a little 
paler: <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_28.php>. Is this 
also a bird wich is highly unlikely to ba a hybrid? Or what about: 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_26.php>;? I think the 
differences in "Viking Gulls" only emphasize the rate of genetic 
dilution through introgression. Where to draw the line? Probably when 
you have come to the point where plumage traces of one of the original 
parents is not visible any more.

More about our Viking Gulls at: 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ind_ufo.php> (included is a large 
variety of what we suspect are Vikings).

All the best,

Frode Falkenberg, Norway

Mars Muusse wrote:
> Hi Dick,
> 
>  
> 
> I think we have to be careful calling birds like the one you mentioned

> as hyperboreus x argentatus (hypergentatus or 'Viking Gull' suggested
by 
> Richard Millington). Breeding Larus argentatus, away from presumed 
> hybridization grounds, may also show limited and aberrant dark
patterns 
> in the primaries.
> 
>  
> 
> A few years ago, I came across a bird in S Sweden, looking pretty much

> like your bird, taken in consideration that it was only August when I 
> took the picture. It was completely juvenile, and I can image that
half 
> a year later, it must have come close to the pattern in your bird.
> 
> I uploaded a picture here:
> 
> http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm
> 
>  
> 
> Thus, I think Van Swelm's Gull indeed is just a pale Herring Gull ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry, the website is still under construction for other plumages.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  
> 
> Mars Muusse
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Dick Newell
> *Sent:* Monday, January 08, 2007 8:35 PM
> *To:* BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
> 
>  
> 
> Three points:
> 1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] 
> European records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the 
> same BWPi Concise there are 2  records from:
> Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
> Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
> (Both records under review)
> I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds, they

> would have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely 
> dependable observer who took meticulous notes - but even then ....
> 
> 2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up

> in Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly

> origin for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe 
> they all came over the top!
> 
> 3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi 
> [_http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ]_ occurs 
> fairly regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north. 
> Whereas the Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and 
> distinctive forms (Kumlien's, Olympic, Nelson's Gull), usually we 
> dismiss them boringly as "Pale Herring Gull" or "Glaucous Gull
hybrid", 
> so I suggest that we should name this form "Van Swelm's Gull".
> I have a nice example of this taxon here:
> http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=462
> 
> Dick
> Cambridge, UK
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 

-- 
Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.miljolare.no

Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 5:50am

Dear Mars and others,

To go on with wild speculation...

1) What about a locally born marinus X argentatus?

2) In S France, we have juv fuscus sometimes as early as August, so why assume
this bird is locally born?

Too many uncertainties for me to take this as evidence that such pale birds can
be pure argentatus. May be, but this is no supportive evidence for me (even if
it is certainly intriguing).

Pierre

Pierre-Andr� Crochet
CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive
1919, route de Mende
34293 Montpellier cedex 5
France
tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile)
     + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office)
fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38
pierre-andre.crochet(AT)cefe.cnrs.fr

-----Message d'origine-----
De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Mars Muusse
Envoy� : 09 January 2007 13:43
� : BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)

Hi Frode,

Paler birds are not uncommon in Holland either, about in the same period as they
 are in S Norway. And, like many other people, we sometimes have to speculate
about both their ID and origin. The bird photographed in S Sweden by mid-August
only demonstrates that you don't have to wait until mid-winter for such birds to
 turn up. That's the only point I wanted to make.
But this very early date has some implications for at least ID and origin I
think, although that's speculative as well as the bird was not ringed as pullus.
However, I do believe it is a local bird from S Sweden, born in Gotenborg
harbour. I also believe that's not where one would consider potential
hybridization grounds for argentatus x hyperboreus.
Then: 1+1=3 -> If this individual was born in S Sweden, and if that's not where
hyperboreus breed, then it has to be a pale argentatus. Ergo
A: some argentatus may show pale primary patterns. Ergo B: these birds do not
necessarily come from far north.

That's all speculative of course. But I encourage (even more) ringing in such
places (the bird standing next to this pale individual was actually ringed, and
guess, was ringed as pullus several weeks before observation at this location
;-).
See: http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/da53945aug.htm

Cheers, Mars

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frode Falkenberg
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:02 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)

Mars and others,

I wonder how <http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm> can

be labeled "highly unlikely to be a hybrid"? The characteristics does not fit
any known young plumage in 1cy argentatus.

 From the same page I can read: "This bird still frequented the nest site in SW
Sweden...". Did it hatch in southern Sweden? Do you think that is bad or good
for a hybrid? See a.o.
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/1cy_02.php> from the southern tip of
Norway.

This type of gull typically arrives in the southern half of Norway from November
 onwards, and we label them hybrids (maybe "Viking Gull" is a better name, I
think so ;-)). They do not look like the nearctic Nelson's Gulls, but they have
(at least) one other species as a parent.
A bird from March 2006 is quite similar to Mars's bird, only a little
paler: <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_28.php>. Is this also a
bird wich is highly unlikely to ba a hybrid? Or what about:
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_26.php>;? I think the differences
in "Viking Gulls" only emphasize the rate of genetic dilution through
introgression. Where to draw the line? Probably when you have come to the point
where plumage traces of one of the original parents is not visible any more.

More about our Viking Gulls at: 
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ind_ufo.php> (included is a large variety of
what we suspect are Vikings).

All the best,

Frode Falkenberg, Norway

Mars Muusse wrote:
> Hi Dick,
> 
>  
> 
> I think we have to be careful calling birds like the one you mentioned

> as hyperboreus x argentatus (hypergentatus or 'Viking Gull' suggested
by 
> Richard Millington). Breeding Larus argentatus, away from presumed 
> hybridization grounds, may also show limited and aberrant dark
patterns 
> in the primaries.
> 
>  
> 
> A few years ago, I came across a bird in S Sweden, looking pretty much

> like your bird, taken in consideration that it was only August when I 
> took the picture. It was completely juvenile, and I can image that
half 
> a year later, it must have come close to the pattern in your bird.
> 
> I uploaded a picture here:
> 
> http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm
> 
>  
> 
> Thus, I think Van Swelm's Gull indeed is just a pale Herring Gull ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry, the website is still under construction for other plumages.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  
> 
> Mars Muusse
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Dick Newell
> *Sent:* Monday, January 08, 2007 8:35 PM
> *To:* BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
> 
>  
> 
> Three points:
> 1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] 
> European records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the 
> same BWPi Concise there are 2  records from:
> Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995 Canary Islands: El Hierro, 
> February 1992 (Both records under review) I would imagine that, if 
> there are no photographs of these birds, they

> would have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely 
> dependable observer who took meticulous notes - but even then ....
> 
> 2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up

> in Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly

> origin for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe 
> they all came over the top!
> 
> 3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi 
> [_http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ]_ occurs 
> fairly regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north.
> Whereas the Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and 
> distinctive forms (Kumlien's, Olympic, Nelson's Gull), usually we 
> dismiss them boringly as "Pale Herring Gull" or "Glaucous Gull
hybrid", 
> so I suggest that we should name this form "Van Swelm's Gull".
> I have a nice example of this taxon here:
> http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=462
> 
> Dick
> Cambridge, UK
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 

--
Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.miljolare.no

Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01

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--
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--

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--

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[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
From: Frode Falkenberg <Frode.Falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 5:52am

Mars Muusse wrote:
 > Then: 1+1=3 -> If this individual was born in S Sweden, and if that's
 > not where hyperboreus breed, then it has to be a pale argentatus. Ergo
 > A: some argentatus may show pale primary patterns. Ergo B: these birds
 > do not necessarily come from far north.

Hi again, and thanks for the quick reply Mars!

Concidering the above view on this bird, I do not think it "has to be" 
an argentatus any way. I'd rather put my pennies on a back-crossed bird. 
I totally agree with part B of your deduction, as shown by the southern 
hybrid breeding in Norway.

Cheers!

Frode

> Hi Frode,
> 
> Paler birds are not uncommon in Holland either, about in the same period
> as they are in S Norway. And, like many other people, we sometimes have
> to speculate about both their ID and origin. The bird photographed in S
> Sweden by mid-August only demonstrates that you don't have to wait until
> mid-winter for such birds to turn up. That's the only point I wanted to
> make. 
> But this very early date has some implications for at least ID and
> origin I think, although that's speculative as well as the bird was not
> ringed as pullus. 
> However, I do believe it is a local bird from S Sweden, born in
> Gotenborg harbour. I also believe that's not where one would consider
> potential hybridization grounds for argentatus x hyperboreus.
> Then: 1+1=3 -> If this individual was born in S Sweden, and if that's
> not where hyperboreus breed, then it has to be a pale argentatus. Ergo
> A: some argentatus may show pale primary patterns. Ergo B: these birds
> do not necessarily come from far north.
> 
> That's all speculative of course. But I encourage (even more) ringing in
> such places (the bird standing next to this pale individual was actually
> ringed, and guess, was ringed as pullus several weeks before observation
> at this location ;-).
> See: http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/da53945aug.htm
> 
> Cheers, Mars
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frode Falkenberg
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:02 PM
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
> 
> Mars and others,
> 
> I wonder how <http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm> can
> 
> be labeled "highly unlikely to be a hybrid"? The characteristics does 
> not fit any known young plumage in 1cy argentatus.
> 
>  From the same page I can read: "This bird still frequented the nest 
> site in SW Sweden...". Did it hatch in southern Sweden? Do you think 
> that is bad or good for a hybrid? See a.o. 
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/1cy_02.php> from the southern tip 
> of Norway.
> 
> This type of gull typically arrives in the southern half of Norway from 
> November onwards, and we label them hybrids (maybe "Viking Gull" is a 
> better name, I think so ;-)). They do not look like the nearctic 
> Nelson's Gulls, but they have (at least) one other species as a parent. 
> A bird from March 2006 is quite similar to Mars's bird, only a little 
> paler: <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_28.php>. Is this 
> also a bird wich is highly unlikely to ba a hybrid? Or what about: 
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_26.php>;? I think the 
> differences in "Viking Gulls" only emphasize the rate of genetic 
> dilution through introgression. Where to draw the line? Probably when 
> you have come to the point where plumage traces of one of the original 
> parents is not visible any more.
> 
> More about our Viking Gulls at: 
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ind_ufo.php> (included is a large 
> variety of what we suspect are Vikings).
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Frode Falkenberg, Norway
> 
> 
> Mars Muusse wrote:
>> Hi Dick,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I think we have to be careful calling birds like the one you mentioned
> 
>> as hyperboreus x argentatus (hypergentatus or 'Viking Gull' suggested
> by 
>> Richard Millington). Breeding Larus argentatus, away from presumed 
>> hybridization grounds, may also show limited and aberrant dark
> patterns 
>> in the primaries.
>>
>>  
>>
>> A few years ago, I came across a bird in S Sweden, looking pretty much
> 
>> like your bird, taken in consideration that it was only August when I 
>> took the picture. It was completely juvenile, and I can image that
> half 
>> a year later, it must have come close to the pattern in your bird.
>>
>> I uploaded a picture here:
>>
>> http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thus, I think Van Swelm's Gull indeed is just a pale Herring Gull ;-)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sorry, the website is still under construction for other plumages.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Mars Muusse
>>
>>  
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
>> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Dick Newell
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 08, 2007 8:35 PM
>> *To:* BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
>>
>>  
>>
>> Three points:
>> 1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] 
>> European records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the 
>> same BWPi Concise there are 2  records from:
>> Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
>> Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
>> (Both records under review)
>> I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds, they
> 
>> would have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely 
>> dependable observer who took meticulous notes - but even then ....
>>
>> 2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning up
> 
>> in Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an easterly
> 
>> origin for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe 
>> they all came over the top!
>>
>> 3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi 
>> [_http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ]_ occurs 
>> fairly regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north. 
>> Whereas the Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and 
>> distinctive forms (Kumlien's, Olympic, Nelson's Gull), usually we 
>> dismiss them boringly as "Pale Herring Gull" or "Glaucous Gull
> hybrid", 
>> so I suggest that we should name this form "Van Swelm's Gull".
>> I have a nice example of this taxon here:
>> http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=462
>>
>> Dick
>> Cambridge, UK
>>
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
>> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>>
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
>> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>>
> 
> 

-- 
Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.miljolare.no

Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01

Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
From: Mars Muusse <marsmuusse(AT)WANADOO.NL>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 6:23am

Hi Frode, Pierre-Andre,

Indeed, wild speculations. But that seems to be procedure with gulls so
now and then. We scan flocks of gulls, without putting too much
attention & time (field notes, moult scorings, characteristics sampling)
to the ordinary looking birds or better: ringed birds... 
Until we finally find the odd individual and spend the rest of the day
speculating what that might have been ;-) And of course, never a
gull-day, with the odd bird far away!

So, two more to speculate on: 
one Viking Gull (or is it?):
http://www.gull-research.org/hypergentatus/hypergentatus01.html

and one argentatus for the fun (yes, yes I know, no ring ;-0) :
http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyoct02.htm

Cheers, Mars

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frode Falkenberg
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:52 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)

Mars Muusse wrote:
 > Then: 1+1=3 -> If this individual was born in S Sweden, and if that's
 > not where hyperboreus breed, then it has to be a pale argentatus.
Ergo
 > A: some argentatus may show pale primary patterns. Ergo B: these
birds
 > do not necessarily come from far north.

Hi again, and thanks for the quick reply Mars!

Concidering the above view on this bird, I do not think it "has to be" 
an argentatus any way. I'd rather put my pennies on a back-crossed bird.

I totally agree with part B of your deduction, as shown by the southern 
hybrid breeding in Norway.

Cheers!

Frode

> Hi Frode,
> 
> Paler birds are not uncommon in Holland either, about in the same
period
> as they are in S Norway. And, like many other people, we sometimes
have
> to speculate about both their ID and origin. The bird photographed in
S
> Sweden by mid-August only demonstrates that you don't have to wait
until
> mid-winter for such birds to turn up. That's the only point I wanted
to
> make. 
> But this very early date has some implications for at least ID and
> origin I think, although that's speculative as well as the bird was
not
> ringed as pullus. 
> However, I do believe it is a local bird from S Sweden, born in
> Gotenborg harbour. I also believe that's not where one would consider
> potential hybridization grounds for argentatus x hyperboreus.
> Then: 1+1=3 -> If this individual was born in S Sweden, and if that's
> not where hyperboreus breed, then it has to be a pale argentatus. Ergo
> A: some argentatus may show pale primary patterns. Ergo B: these birds
> do not necessarily come from far north.
> 
> That's all speculative of course. But I encourage (even more) ringing
in
> such places (the bird standing next to this pale individual was
actually
> ringed, and guess, was ringed as pullus several weeks before
observation
> at this location ;-).
> See: http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/da53945aug.htm
> 
> Cheers, Mars
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frode Falkenberg
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:02 PM
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
> 
> Mars and others,
> 
> I wonder how <http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm>
can
> 
> be labeled "highly unlikely to be a hybrid"? The characteristics does 
> not fit any known young plumage in 1cy argentatus.
> 
>  From the same page I can read: "This bird still frequented the nest 
> site in SW Sweden...". Did it hatch in southern Sweden? Do you think 
> that is bad or good for a hybrid? See a.o. 
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/1cy_02.php> from the southern tip

> of Norway.
> 
> This type of gull typically arrives in the southern half of Norway
from 
> November onwards, and we label them hybrids (maybe "Viking Gull" is a 
> better name, I think so ;-)). They do not look like the nearctic 
> Nelson's Gulls, but they have (at least) one other species as a
parent. 
> A bird from March 2006 is quite similar to Mars's bird, only a little 
> paler: <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_28.php>. Is this

> also a bird wich is highly unlikely to ba a hybrid? Or what about: 
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_26.php>;? I think the 
> differences in "Viking Gulls" only emphasize the rate of genetic 
> dilution through introgression. Where to draw the line? Probably when 
> you have come to the point where plumage traces of one of the original

> parents is not visible any more.
> 
> More about our Viking Gulls at: 
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ind_ufo.php> (included is a large 
> variety of what we suspect are Vikings).
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Frode Falkenberg, Norway
> 
> 
> Mars Muusse wrote:
>> Hi Dick,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I think we have to be careful calling birds like the one you
mentioned
> 
>> as hyperboreus x argentatus (hypergentatus or 'Viking Gull' suggested
> by 
>> Richard Millington). Breeding Larus argentatus, away from presumed 
>> hybridization grounds, may also show limited and aberrant dark
> patterns 
>> in the primaries.
>>
>>  
>>
>> A few years ago, I came across a bird in S Sweden, looking pretty
much
> 
>> like your bird, taken in consideration that it was only August when I

>> took the picture. It was completely juvenile, and I can image that
> half 
>> a year later, it must have come close to the pattern in your bird.
>>
>> I uploaded a picture here:
>>
>> http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thus, I think Van Swelm's Gull indeed is just a pale Herring Gull ;-)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sorry, the website is still under construction for other plumages.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Mars Muusse
>>
>>  
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
>> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Dick Newell
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 08, 2007 8:35 PM
>> *To:* BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] Glaucous-winged age
>>
>>  
>>
>> Three points:
>> 1. So, I think my original assertion that there are no [accepted] 
>> European records of Glaucous-winged Gull is correct. However, in the 
>> same BWPi Concise there are 2  records from:
>> Morocco: Essaouira, adult, January 1995
>> Canary Islands: El Hierro, February 1992
>> (Both records under review)
>> I would imagine that, if there are no photographs of these birds,
they
> 
>> would have little chance of acceptance, unless seen by an extremely 
>> dependable observer who took meticulous notes - but even then ....
>>
>> 2. One is tempted to wonder whether 2 Long-billed Murrelets turning
up
> 
>> in Europe, particularly the one in Romania, would indicate an
easterly
> 
>> origin for the Gloucester Gull, rather than a westerly one. Or maybe 
>> they all came over the top!
>>
>> 3. The race Larus glaucescens vanswelmi 
>> [_http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp06.html ]_ occurs 
>> fairly regularly here if we get cold enough weather from the north. 
>> Whereas the Americans are very good at assigning names to hybrid and 
>> distinctive forms (Kumlien's, Olympic, Nelson's Gull), usually we 
>> dismiss them boringly as "Pale Herring Gull" or "Glaucous Gull
> hybrid", 
>> so I suggest that we should name this form "Van Swelm's Gull".
>> I have a nice example of this taxon here:
>> http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=462
>>
>> Dick
>> Cambridge, UK
>>
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
>> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>>
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
>> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>>
> 
> 

-- 
Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.miljolare.no

Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01

Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01

Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: documentation of WP Glaucous-winged Gull(s)
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 6:28am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Thanks to Peter Adriaens and Carlos S=E1nchez, here are the details for the=
 Western Palearctic Glaucous-winged Gull(s) since they are apparently not g=
enerally well known.
=20
=46rom Carlos:
""you can find a picture of the El Hierro gull Larus glaucescens at the rec=
ently published 'Aves raras de Espa=F1a', by Eduardo de Juana (Lynx edicion=
s 2006, page 324). The gull was identified as a 3rd. winter and observed an=
d photographed by Domingo Trujillo on february 7 and 10 1992 in La Restinga=
, El Hierro. Record accepted and placed in Category D and also published in=
 Ardeola 45: 108-109. The moroccan record, identified as an adult is suspec=
ted to be the same bird. Essaouira is some 950 kms. far from El Hierro in s=
traight line.""
=20
=46rom Peter:
""the Moroccan record (including several photographs) was published in Dutc=
h Birding 23:5 (2001); "Glaucous-winged Gull at Essaouira, Morocco, in Janu=
ary 1995 Theo Bakker, Koen van Dijken & Enno B Ebels".
Know your classics!""
(yes, I should...)
=20
Pierre

Pierre-Andr=E9 Crochet=20
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1919, route de Mende=20
34293 Montpellier cedex 5=20
France=20
tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile)=20
     + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office)=20
fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38=20
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=20

--=20
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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)CHARTER.NET>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 6:52am

> Sorry about that; here is the correct one, as Norman has informed me 
> (I had chosen based on the dates I have; maybe I got them mixed-up):
> http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp05.html

No compelling reason to think this has any Glaucous-winged genes
either. 

>This type of gull typically arrives in the southern half of Norway from 
>November onwards, and we label them hybrids (maybe "Viking Gull" is a 
>better name, I think so ;-)). They do not look like the nearctic 
>Nelson's Gulls

I have seen at least a few juv. in Oregon over the years that are not all
that unlike some of these "viking" gulls. Generally I have passed them
off as most likely smith x Glaucous-winged, but I'm not sure why
they couldn't be a dark-billed form of Nelson's that goes overlooked
here.

Cheers,

Phil

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Subject: The Trondheim mystery gull; Caspian, Herring,
         California?
From: Frode Falkenberg <Frode.Falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 8:48am

Hi all!

Since we're kind of into the unidentifiable stuff, several people have 
asked me whether the strange gull (you know, the proposed California 
Gull...) that wintered in Trondheim, middle Norway is still around. And 
yes, it is! Some new pictures and description is available at:

http://cyberbirding.no/gull/

New comments are of course appreciated!

Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.cyberbirding.no

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)ZEN.CO.UK>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 9:38am

I apologise to Norman for identifying the wrong gull as Van Swelm's Gull, I
would identify the correct gull as Van Swelm's Gull instead. In fact given
that this taxon already has a proposed name of Viking Gull, I withdraw my
proposal to name it Van Swelm's Gull. "Viking Gull" has a much better ring
to it - a raping and pillaging gull from the north!
Dick

On 9/1/07 12:21, "Martin Reid" <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET> wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
>> 
>> Norman Wrote:
>> I am sorry to spoil your cosy little party but Martin showed the
>> wrong bird, still, it pleases me to see my birds have such
>> stimulating effect.
>> Cheers, Norman
> 
> Sorry about that; here is the correct one, as Norman has informed me
> (I had chosen based on the dates I have; maybe I got them mixed-up):
> http://www.martinreid.com/Gull%20website/gullsp05.html
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 9:49am

Does anybody know when and where the terms "vagrant"
and "vagrancy" were first coined and defined? Several
months ago I did some searching on the Internet and
found the terms frequently used in the published
literature but rarely defined.

Floyd Hayes
Hidden Valley Lake, CA

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 10:07am

Well, the English word "vagrant" has always meant a wanderer or a nomad, 
without a settled home.  The use for birds was well established by at least 
1964 when A. Landsborough Thomson included it in his "New Dictionary of 
Birds" (the oldest reference I have beside my desk at work):

"VAGRANT: a wanderer outside the normal migration range of the species or 
subspecies, so far as that can be judged."

Kevin

At 11:49 AM 1/9/2007, Floyd Hayes wrote:
>Does anybody know when and where the terms "vagrant"
>and "vagrancy" were first coined and defined? Several
>months ago I did some searching on the Internet and
>found the terms frequently used in the published
>literature but rarely defined.
>
>Floyd Hayes
>Hidden Valley Lake, CA
>
>
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>
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*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Shaibal Mitra <mitra(AT)mail.csi.cuny.edu>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 10:30am

Ludlow Griscom used this word in the Birds of Concord (1949), and his treatment
of vagrancy in this work is fascinating. Although I don't have the volume at
hand, I
remember some of his characteristically colorful phrases.  He argued that local
avifaunas consist of a core set of  "normal and regular" species, and that
�vagrant,
casual, stray or lost" individuals of other species reflected "chance 
and accident" and were therefore mostly indicative of the "duration, intensity,
and
competence" of field work at particular sites. Although he acknowledged, of 
course, the addition and deletion of species from the "normal and regular" list,
 he
conspicuously did not emphasize the utility of vagrancy as a window into these 
dynamic process.

Best,

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore, NY

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Reply-To: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date:          Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:07:06 -0500

>Well, the English word "vagrant" has always meant a wanderer or a nomad, 
>without a settled home.  The use for birds was well established by at least 
>1964 when A. Landsborough Thomson included it in his "New Dictionary of 
>Birds" (the oldest reference I have beside my desk at work):
>
>"VAGRANT: a wanderer outside the normal migration range of the species or 
>subspecies, so far as that can be judged."
>
>Kevin
>
>
>At 11:49 AM 1/9/2007, Floyd Hayes wrote:
>>Does anybody know when and where the terms "vagrant"
>>and "vagrancy" were first coined and defined? Several
>>months ago I did some searching on the Internet and
>>found the terms frequently used in the published
>>literature but rarely defined.
>>
>>Floyd Hayes
>>Hidden Valley Lake, CA
>>
>>
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SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>*****************************************************
>Kevin J. McGowan
>Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
>Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
>159 Sapsucker Woods Road
>Ithaca, NY 14850
>607/254-2432
>fax 607/254-2111
>kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
>http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
>
>
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>

 

________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Lee Sterrenburg <sterren(AT)INDIANA.EDU>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 10:40am

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On Jan 9, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Floyd Hayes wrote:

> Does anybody know when and where the terms "vagrant"
> and "vagrancy" were first coined and defined? Several
> months ago I did some searching on the Internet and
> found the terms frequently used in the published
> literature but rarely defined.
>
> Floyd Hayes
> Hidden Valley Lake, CA

The Online Oxford English Dictionary isn't the total answer but  
sometimes it does deal with scientific and ornithological words.

Under the third definition for the word "vagrant" used as an  
adjective we read:

3. Leading a wandering or nomadic life; ranging or roaming from place  
to place; straying, straggling. Cf. VAGANT a. 1.

And the historical examples applied to animals in this general sense  
are:

b. Of animals, birds, etc.

1743 FRANCIS tr. Horace, Odes IV. iv. 4 To whom the monarch of the  
gods assign'd Dominion o'er the vagrant, feather'd race. 1767 Phil.  
Trans. LVII. 396 It becomes a resting place to vagrant birds. 1774  
GOLDSM. Nat. Hist. (1776) III. 53 [The goat is] lively, capricious,  
and vagrant; it is not easily confined to its flock.., and loves to  
stray remote from the rest. 1817 WORDSW. Vernal Ode 90 The soft  
murmur of the vagrant Bee. 1855 Poultry Chron. III. 562 In one case  
two swarms, both of them vagrant swarms, took possession of the same  
hive.

An addition from 1997 claims that the first usages with birds in a  
technical sense were for avian vagrants in England or Europe, defined  
as follows.  The first usage in this manner cited by the OED dates  
from 1920:

ADDITIONS SERIES 1997

     vagrant, n. and a.

     Add:    [A.] 4. Ornith. A bird that is encountered outside its  
normal area of distribution or migration; spec. (in the U.K.), one  
that has been recorded fewer than twenty times in the British Isles.

1920 H. F. WITHERBY et al. Pract. Handbk. Brit. Birds I. 140 The  
Lapland Bunting... has occurred [in] many English counties as  
vagrant. 1953 D. A. BANNERMAN Birds Brit. Isles I. 337 The snow finch  
has occurred as a vagrant in several other countries of eastern  
Europe. 1983 Birds Spring 15/2 The vagrant from the Continent, was  
found sheltering under a car. Many birds are blown off course during  
gales. 1988 Bird Watching Aug. 46/2 Returning migrants are beginning  
to appear and by the end of the month we could witness good seabird  
movements and the first North American vagrant.

In the OED there are no corresponding avian definitions or examples  
for the word "vagrancy."

--Lee Sterrenburg
Bloomington, Indiana

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age/Norman's gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 10:54am

Well Dick I can live with your suggestion that the Vikings were among the 
first vagrants who came across Glaucous-winged Gulls and their hybrids such 
as my gull but to suggest that these gulls are involved in raping indicates 
a lack of knowledge of their mating behaviour on your part so may I suggest 
you read Niko Tinbergen's Herring Gulls' World first?
Norman

Dick Newell wrote: >I apologise to Norman for identifying the wrong gull as 
Van Swelm's Gull, I
> would identify the correct gull as Van Swelm's Gull instead. In fact given
> that this taxon already has a proposed name of Viking Gull, I withdraw my
> proposal to name it Van Swelm's Gull. "Viking Gull" has a much better ring
> to it - a raping and pillaging gull from the north!
> Dick 

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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged age (Viking Gull)
From: Harry Lehto <hlehto(AT)UTU.FI>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 12:17pm

Dear all, 
We have discussed these pale herrings gulls perviously, both here and privately
with Frode.

Frode says:
> I wonder how <http://www.gull- research.org/hg/hg1cy/1cyaugust09.htm> can 
> be labeled "highly unlikely to be a hybrid"? The characteristics 
> does  not fit any known young plumage in 1cy argentatus.

Using the principle of Ocham's razor one should go with the simpler solution
unless proven otherwise.
I have don't see any reason why a hybrid should be claimed eg. in the case
abvove.
I see in Finland a continuous range of Herring gulls from this kind of bird of a
 pale primaried Herring  Gul
to "normally " colored darker birds.  The jump in characters from these pale
herrings to glaucous x herrings
is normally quite pronounced.  
Schematically (below "Herr" shows a typical and <---> the range of herring, XX
hybrids, <gla> glacous gull)

<-----Herr------------------->                 XX                <gla>

Last winter I lived in Denmark. There I went quite a few times gulling (although
 did not take many pictures
of gulls), and noted that on average the 1winter argentatus tended to be darker
and with darker heads
than the ones we see here. I saw a few of the birds similar to the above and
there was no question
in the field that  that these were quite stiking but still just  pale herrings
gulls.
(my comments on the cyberbirding.uib.no page after my signature) 

These kinds of pale gulls have been known from Finland for quite a while (see
similar details eg. Olsen and
Larsson gull guide, p255, line 11 onwards) and although they may have some
glaucous genes I would not consider them hybrids.  Maybe there was some more
serious hybridisation around the ice age - or the little ice age, and we see
those ancient traces.

I think we may have here a similar situation that is seen in Greater-black
Backed Gulls were juvenile/1st wi
can be roughly in two "colors" the rarer pale form and more common dark form. In
 GBB group this is simpler
as one has basicly only one race in Europe. With the Herring gull group in
Northern Europe one should realize that  one has the argenteus group, the
scandinavian argentatus, the Finnish argentatus, the Finnmark argentatus, and
possibly the kola argentatus. Although none of these subgroups may be properly
defined one can find clinical variations across the region in various
properties, and in winter when these groups tend to congregate into the southern
 Baltic/ North Sea the numbers increase significantly. The numbers of  "extreme"
 cases also increases not only because of the increased
number gulls but  also because of the variations **between** the different
groups. This is something that is easily  overlooked

I think that these pale herring gulls come from somewhere (east) of the Kola
peninsula, some of us have called these with a Finnish name  Kuola(n)lokki =
Kola Gull, but it has also kind of a dual meaning of  slobber gull or droll gull
 :-)

Please also note the points about 
Best Regards
Harry
hlehto(AT)utu.fi

P.S. Just to run down my opinion on the gulls at
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ind_ufo.php
having disussed these pages in length with various finns and danes... 
First, I would like to applaude these pages because they provide an interetsing
forum for a good discussion.
And now my comments.

1cy
expect for the pulli, I could consider that these birds are easily within the
range of normal Herring Gulls, and don't see any hybrids.

2cy
All within the range of 1st winter Herring gulls expect that 

These could be hybrids. 
Feb 22 2003 Bergen, Hordaland
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_20.php
Feb 22 2004 Oslo  http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_23.php

These seem to be good ones in my opinion
March 15, 2006 Bergen, Hordaland
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_28.php
April 4, 2005, Bergen, Hordaland
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_26.php
May 12, 2006 Grins�, Nordland
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_16.php

Really no comments on - mainly because would like to see more details
March 05, 2000 leuctistic?
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_14.php
March 15, 2003 Vest-Agdler - would like details, e.g. tail, scaps
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_21.php
March  15, 2003 Rogaland - http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_22.php
~15 May 2002 Fugelvika, Vest-Agder
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_17.php

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Harry J Lehto
Tuorla Observatory
University of Turku
V�is�l�ntie 20
FI-21500 Piikki�
FINLAND
hlehto(at)utu.fi

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Harry Lehto <hlehto(AT)UTU.FI>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 12:27pm

Hi Floyd,
        This word like so many other english ones are based on latin...

Vagor (1) means to wander, walk around, criss cross, walk, to roam,wander about
etc, so it must have been an old word

Just the Finnish word for vargant is  "satunnaisharhailija" is clearly not based
 on latin. :-)

Harry
hlehto(AT)utu.fi

> 
> > Does anybody know when and where the terms "vagrant"
> > and "vagrancy" were first coined and defined? Several
> > months ago I did some searching on the Internet and
> > found the terms frequently used in the published
> > literature but rarely defined.
> >
> > Floyd Hayes
> > Hidden Valley Lake, CA

 

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 5:29pm

To All:
I wanted to add a few examples that prove that extreme vagrancy may be 
caused by factors other than weather. On the east coast of North 
America, in New Jersey, we have had a number of very rare vagrants that 
returned for several to many years during migration or winter to the 
same location, proving that their off-course journey was not a death 
sentence, but an opportunity to survive in a totally different locality.
One example was a Golden-crowned Sparrow in the 1970's, which 
represented only one of two records for that species for NJ at that 
time, that returned to the same backyard feeder two winters in a row! 
Another striking example, although not an extreme vagrant, was a 
Barrow's Goldeneye drake that returned for 17 years straight to the same 
estuary in central NJ. This species was almost unheard of during these 
early years of serious NJ birding, but could be found there every 
winter. Other examples of more extralimital vagrants include the 
White-winged Black Terns that frequented the Delaware Bay Shore NW 
refuges in the 1980's to early 1990's. A handful of individuals could be 
found from mid-July to early fall each year at these locations, before 
migrating to who knows where? Although the origin of these birds was 
unknown, the lack of any sightings of these birds in recent years leads 
one to believe that these were the same individuals that migrated as a 
small group to this unlikely location on the 'wrong continent', survived 
their 'ordeal' and returned for a good number of years to this 'wrong' 
location, eventually dwindling down to one or two individuals after 5+ 
years or so. Shorebirds are also notorius for wandering to unexpected 
locations, even continents, with a history of returning to the same 
locations for a year to several following years, such as the early 
Curlew Sandpiper records in the 1980's that returned to Jamaica Bay in 
the same week of July for a number of years in a row, and the 
Long-billed Curlew that wintered near Cape May in 2002 and 2003, after 
only two present day records over a 50 year period.
Many of these vagrants were not blown off course, but were guided to 
these unexpected locations by genetic or other reasons that we are not 
aware of. The Golden-crowned Sparrow returning to the same backyard 
feeder two winters in a row is way beyond statistical possibility of 
accidental vagrancy.
Kevin Karlson

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Subject: "Vagrancy" and other confusing terminology --
         LONG
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 9 Jan 2007 9:04pm

Everyone,

Excellent points by Kevin Karlson, on the return of a Golden-crowned
Sparrow to winter in the same New Jersey backyard for two consecutive
winters (he actually beat me to the punch, as I was going to use this
example).  But don't forget the classic example in this department -- the
Common Skylark that returned for three (?) consecutive winters to Point
Reyes, California.  That bird presumably travelled from Asia to
California and return on numerous occasions.  Thus it was neither "lost"
nor could it be called a vagrant.

There are a number of other "terms" that are equally confusing when used
to describe a species at a specific location.  These include casual,
accidental, irregular, straggler, sporadic, etc. etc.  And each author
invariably describes each term differently, often VERY differently.

For many decades I have struggled with all the potential terminology that
one could use to describe the status of birds here at Point Pelee (for a
planned book).  It is obvious that using "total number of occurrences" to
place a species in a specific category is self-defeating, since over time
there will always be an increasing number of occurrences.  For example,
describing a species as a vagrant ("less than 10 records") or accidental
("1 or 2 records only") will not remain so over time (as additional
records are sure to accumulate).

Thus rather than using terms that try to "judge" what a particular
category a species should be placed into (e.g., vagrant or accidental, or
regular or irregular, etc.), I instead have developed a system that
describes the FREQUENCY of a species during a specific season (spring or
fall, etc.).  By so doing I never need to use the terms vagrancy, etc.,
to describe a species' status, even though those terms can still be used
in text form when discussing a single record or series of records.

Should anyone be interested, the categories I have developed are as
follows:  Abundant, Common, Fairly Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare,
Extremely Rare.

I won't describe these categories here, especially since they are on my
old computer and would take some time to find.  But here are some
examples on HOW I apply them:

Blue Grosbeak -- Very Rare Spring Transient.  Some years there are none,
some years there are 2 or 3 birds.  So as long as this "pattern of
occurrence" remains more-or-less the same, the status of Blue Grosbeak
will never change at Point Pelee no matter how many records actually
accumulate (currently 54 records spanning the dates of April 22 to June 1
inclusive).  We have no fall record, but should one appear the status
would be Extremely Rare Fall Transient.  And if yet another were to
appear 10 years thereafter, it would still be an Extremely Rare Fall
Transient.

Black-capped Petrel -- Extremely Rare Fall Transient.  We have only a
single record, but future hurricanes are bound to bring more occurrences
(although it might take decades before this happens).  But even with more
records, the status would not change.  This might be the type of record
that other authors might categorize as "vagrant" or "accidental," and
they essentially may be correct, but should more records accumulate (over
time) then such designations start to fall apart.

Sorry for this long account.  But hopefully it demonstrates how bird
records can be categorized based on their "frequency of occurrence"
rather than trying to decide if a bird is lost (vagrant) or will never
occur again (accidental), etc.

Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 12:42am

All

   I had no idea about this Golden-crowned Sparrow, and it makes a great
point. Thanks Kevin for bringing this up. At least here in the West where
migratory wintering sparrows have been studied intensively, originally
through the work of Dick Mewaldt and CJ Ralph, a series of characteristics
were determined experimentally. These included that our local Zonotrichia
sparrows fixed or imprinted on a wintering site after their first southbound
migration and were extremely faithful to that site from then on. They would
even find their way back to the wintering site when captured and deposited
elsewhere in other parts of California, see this paper:

http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v093n01/p0001-p0014.pdf

I don't have the original papers, but if you look in the references of the
one above, there were displacement experiments done which included
successful homing to California from Louisiana and Maryland! You probably
can't do these types of experiments any longer. 

So that New Jersey Golden-crowned Sparrow in the 70s may have been lost the
first year (and therefore a vagrant) but was not lost the next time around,
it was homing back to the same place it had wintered at before (so maybe it
wasn't a vagrant in a sense the next year). The California sparrow releases
were in the 60s, so the New Jersey bird is not tainted by the experiments.
:-)

The faithfulness to wintering sites, and a long term banding operation at
the San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory allowed Bret Sandercock and I to use
recaptures there to estimate survival rates based on a wintering population.
This may have been the first time it was done on passerines, since in
general they are not so faithful to a specific wintering site...that we know
of. We were trying to test the hypothesis that migration distance affected
survival, and we did not find that to be the case. We were comparing 6
different sparrows, with different migration distances. Here is the
reference and a link to the pdf in case anyone is interested in this stuff. 

Sandercock, B.K. and A. Jaramillo. 2002. Annual survival rates of wintering
sparrows: assessing demographic consequences of migration. Auk 119: 149-165.

http://www.k-state.edu/bsanderc/2002auksosp.pdf

cheers

Al

Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)coastside.net
Half Moon Bay, California
 
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
www.fieldguides.com
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin Karlson
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Causes of extreme vagrancy

To All:
I wanted to add a few examples that prove that extreme vagrancy may be 
caused by factors other than weather. On the east coast of North 
America, in New Jersey, we have had a number of very rare vagrants that 
returned for several to many years during migration or winter to the 
same location, proving that their off-course journey was not a death 
sentence, but an opportunity to survive in a totally different locality.
One example was a Golden-crowned Sparrow in the 1970's, which 
represented only one of two records for that species for NJ at that 
time, that returned to the same backyard feeder two winters in a row! 
Another striking example, although not an extreme vagrant, was a 
Barrow's Goldeneye drake that returned for 17 years straight to the same 
estuary in central NJ. This species was almost unheard of during these 
early years of serious NJ birding, but could be found there every 
winter. Other examples of more extralimital vagrants include the 
White-winged Black Terns that frequented the Delaware Bay Shore NW 
refuges in the 1980's to early 1990's. A handful of individuals could be 
found from mid-July to early fall each year at these locations, before 
migrating to who knows where? Although the origin of these birds was 
unknown, the lack of any sightings of these birds in recent years leads 
one to believe that these were the same individuals that migrated as a 
small group to this unlikely location on the 'wrong continent', survived 
their 'ordeal' and returned for a good number of years to this 'wrong' 
location, eventually dwindling down to one or two individuals after 5+ 
years or so. Shorebirds are also notorius for wandering to unexpected 
locations, even continents, with a history of returning to the same 
locations for a year to several following years, such as the early 
Curlew Sandpiper records in the 1980's that returned to Jamaica Bay in 
the same week of July for a number of years in a row, and the 
Long-billed Curlew that wintered near Cape May in 2002 and 2003, after 
only two present day records over a 50 year period.
Many of these vagrants were not blown off course, but were guided to 
these unexpected locations by genetic or other reasons that we are not 
aware of. The Golden-crowned Sparrow returning to the same backyard 
feeder two winters in a row is way beyond statistical possibility of 
accidental vagrancy.
Kevin Karlson

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: "Wayne C. Weber" <contopus(AT)TELUS.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 2:10am

Alan and Bird ID People,

When I read Kevin Karlson's note, I immediately thought of 
California's Sky Lark. But Alan, you understated the number of
times this bird returned to the Point Reyes area--  it actually
spent part or all of SEVEN successive winters at this locality
(Dec. 1978 through Feb. 1985). While the first occurrence
could have been related to unusual weather, this could not
have been the explanation for the bird's occurrence in all
7 years.

Incidentally, for those not familiar with the story of this Sky Lark,
there is an ID angle--  when it first appeared, the bird was
misidentified as a Smith's Longspur by many of California's
top birders at the time, until its true identity was eventually
determined.

There are lots of examples of other individual birds returning to
wintering localities far from their normal range for several years--
e.g. a FALCATED DUCK which has returned to the Eugene, OR
area for 4 winters in a row.

Wayne C. Weber
Delta, BC
contopus(AT)telus.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Wormington" <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:02 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] "Vagrancy" and other confusing terminology -- LONG

Everyone,

Excellent points by Kevin Karlson, on the return of a Golden-crowned
Sparrow to winter in the same New Jersey backyard for two consecutive
winters (he actually beat me to the punch, as I was going to use this
example).  But don't forget the classic example in this department -- the
Common Skylark that returned for three (?) consecutive winters to Point
Reyes, California.  That bird presumably travelled from Asia to
California and return on numerous occasions.  Thus it was neither "lost"
nor could it be called a vagrant.

                                        <  SNIP  >

Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 6:01am

Dear all,
I'd like to thank Alan Wormington for his email offering an elegant 
solution to the "vagrant" issue on checklists; I'll certainly be 
using it (or a variation of it) in future documents.

However, I feel compelled to question the notion that the Californian 
Skylark (or any returning intercontinental "vagrant") travelled to 
and from it's adopted winter quarters and its original point (or 
region) of origin.  It may be that each Spring such birds attempt to 
reorient somehow and end up for the summer in an equivalent 
latitude/habitat in the new continent for the summer, before 
returning faithfully to their winter territory.  The urge to breed 
may lead some of these birds to become "vagrant" Summer wanderers in 
the new continent, and maybe some end up somewhere they can find a 
mate (not necessarily of the same species...)  There was a first 
winter Black-headed Gull found in Forth Worth, Texas that was banded 
near Helsinki, Finland ; it returned to Fort Worth for three more 
winters.  I seriously doubt that each summer it went back to the Old 
World - but then it didn't need to to find a mate, as there are BHGUs 
breeding in the far NE of North America.  My gut tells me that the 
returning Falcated Duck in California probably spent its summers in 
the boreal New World fraternizing with other dabbling ducks.

The Skylark of course seems SOL in terms of finding someone to party 
with (what about Horned Lark?), but is there any firm evidence of 
intercontinental "vagrants" (especially passerines) making it back to 
their continent of origin?   The only one I know of is a Ring--billed 
Gull that was banded in Canada, seen in Spain (I think) and then seen 
again in North America - but gulls are scavenging seabirds for whom 
almost any habitat is one they can exploit (or at least survive). 
The challenges for passerines are much higher.

Perhaps my point of view is coloured by my European origins, where 
New World songbirds arrive in small but regular numbers each Fall 
(with a tiny number in Springs).  It is thought they are mostly 
carried by fast-moving transAtlantic storms and thus mostly 
weather-driven "vagrants".  I doubt any of them that survive make it 
back to the New World.  There are lots of New World shorebirds that 
arrive in Europe in Fall, and a few have been seen in late 
Spring/Summer in the equivalent breeding latitudes in northern Europe 
and Scandinavia attempting to mate (sometimes succeeding) with their 
Old World counterpart, so it seems that these birds have stayed in 
their new continent and are trying to make the best of it!

Taking the experiment mentioned by Alvaro a step further, has anyone 
tried "forced vagrancy" on first-time southbound migrants, to see if 
they the return in the summer to their area of origin?

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com

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Subject: Vagrants
From: Chris Hill <chill(AT)COASTAL.EDU>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 6:24am

I have always liked books that categorize bird occurrence in the way  
Alan Wormington describes.  I grew up with John Bull's "Birds of the  
New York Area," which had a very similar set of quantitatively  
defined, named categories (although Bull did define "accidental" and  
"casual" by the total number of historical records).  Anyway, bravo  
for using commonsense English words for your categories (Abundant,  
Common, Fairly Common) rather than something like "Code 6!"

But what I wanted to contribute was the thought that while a Sky Lark  
in California or a Western Grebe in Maine stand out to us for their  
wintering site fidelity, the phenomenon is probably much wider than  
even Alvaro suggested (since he held out the sparrows as more or less  
exceptional in their site fidelity).  In Puerto Rico in the 1980s I  
helped a UMass graduate student, Cindi Staicer, in a field project,  
and as part of it we colorbanded wintering Prairie Warblers, Cape May  
Warblers, Northern Parulas and American Redstarts.  The general rule  
was that not only did the same individuals return to the study site  
year after year, but the colorbanded Cape May could be found in the  
same tree, reliably, every year.  Aside from known wanderers like  
waxwings and robins, I lean towards wintering site fidelity being the  
rule.

Wasn't there also a record of a "Sutton's" Warbler (putative Parula x  
Yellow-throated) which appeared in a backyard in the 1970s somewhere  
like West Virginia during migration, and then appeared in the same  
backyard on the same date the following year?  That suggests that not  
only breeding and wintering sites become habitual after the first  
migration, but also stopover sites (since there was obviously just  
one Sutton's Warbler involved).

While doing a Christmas Count this year, it occurred to me that the  
reason experience led me to expect a Fox Sparrow (uncommon on this  
count) on a particular dike might not be that that was good Fox  
Sparrow habitat, but that the same individual had been in that spot  
for the last few years.

CH

************************************************************************
Christopher E. Hill
Biology Department
Coastal Carolina University
Conway, SC 29528-1954
chill AT coastal.edu
http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: Jamie Chavez <jcdendroica(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 7:11am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

One such example, although perhaps not as "far" from its normal range, is t=
he Zone-tailed Hawk currently wintering in Santa Barbara CA now for it's fo=
urteenth consecutive winter. This, if memory serves me and thanks to its va=
grancy, establishes the longest known life span of this species.=0A =0AJami=
e Chavez=0ASanta Maria, CA=0Awww.sbcobirding.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original =
Message ----=0AFrom: Wayne C. Weber <contopus(AT)TELUS.NET>=0ATo: BIRDWG01@LIS=
TSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=0ASent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:00:09 AM=0ASubject:=
 Re: [BIRDWG01] Causes of extreme vagrancy=0A=0A=0AAlan and Bird ID People,=
=0A=0A=0AThere are lots of examples of other individual birds returning to=
=0Awintering localities far from their normal range for several years--=0Ae=
.g. a FALCATED DUCK which has returned to the Eugene, OR=0Aarea for 4 winte=
rs in a row.=0A=0AWayne C. Weber=0ADelta, BC=0Acontopus(AT)telus.net=0A=0A____=
______________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of =
spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo=
.com 

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Subject: vagrancy
From: "Smith, Michael" <Michael.Smith(AT)MAINE.GOV>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 7:59am

Seems to me that we are really just looking at a continuum of
ever-farther movements caused by various factors, all of which are
mechanisms by which the species is trying out new things to continue to
adapt and survive.  How do I know the BC Chickadees at my feeder this
morning are local birds, or are they blown in by a storm from 500 miles
away, or misnavigated and ended up here to mix up the local gene pool a
bit?  We only notice the birds that are clearly out of place, such as if
a Boreal Chickadee or Carolina Chickadee showed up (or a Rustic Bunting
for a little more excitement).  At some point a bird is so far away and
out of place we have to put a label on it because humans like to
classify things.

Whatever the reason for the movement which brings odd birds to far-off
places, it seems to me that all of this is just the expression of
variability in animals and the testing of certain characters of
individuals by natural selection.  A pair of Sooty Terns showed up in
San Diego two years in a row, they even mate and lay an egg, but both
stand out like sore thumbs among the "white" terns in the area, and both
are eaten by Peregrines within 5 days of the nesting.  What brought the
birds so far from their nearest colonies?  Unlikely to be weather, more
likely an innate sense to wander and explore, or an innate error in
their internal "compass".  Either way, that species tried breeding on
new ground and failed.

Every other example can be looked at the same way, Western Reef-Herons,
White-winged Terns, Red-footed Falcon, etc.

**********
Michael Smith
Gardiner ME

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Subject: Re: Vagrancy and juv dispersal
From: idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU
Date: 10 Jan 2007 9:11am

I once helped out on a small sample study in which fledged juvenile
Black-capped
Chickadees were color-banded when they were still being fed by their parents.
They  moved throughout their habitat in family groups until a rather sudden and
explosive break-up/dispersal event occurred over a 1-2 day period involving
aggressive interactions. The young would then disperse in all directions from 2
to 25 km from their natal site. These young would then form a site fidelity to
the new area and join other resident birds already there as winter flocks.

I know that similar dispersal events have been shown in other species and this
mechanism, promoting outbreeding, may be the norm for most birds. How many of
our vagrant occurrences, especially those reported as being of seasonal returns
to wintering areas are the result of birds that have established a winter site
fidelity due to a dispersal overshoot rather than as a result of a migratory
mismovement. Perhaps these out of range birds are now the real potential
pioneers or founders, rather than an often doomed migratory vagrant. These
misplaced winterers then may migrate out of range via a programmed "normal"
route that they would have followed from their normal winter range. They may
become summer displaced "vagrants" as well- e.g. a Harris's Sparrow singing
with only White-throats around to respond- that Harris's also wintering 500
miles east of its normal winter range.

And then we occasionally discover the challenging and not so challenging hybrid
birds produced because of this aberrant juv dispersal. Here in Wisconsin we now
have a Mew Gull, very rare in the Midwest, that has returned to a specific
migration stopover-loafing spot in November for 5 years, always with Ring-bills
and a Barrow's Goldeneye wintering in the same spot for 10+ years. Maybe some
of
those borderline, small Ring-bills we occasionally photograph and call small
females are in fact hybrids. Forgive me if this is a restatement of ideas
contained in a previous, missed post.

John Idzikowski,
Mlwaukee

mew   winter summer hybrid   not a migration movement how prevalent is it

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Subject: On vagrancy
From: "Ian A. McLaren" <I.A.McLaren(AT)Dal.Ca>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 9:39am

All:

I've been perhaps overly fascinated in "vagrancy" (and I still like the term)
over the years, and have written (with others) three itenms that address the
roles of wrong-headedness vs. wind displacement with some focus on the East
Coast and Nova Scotia. These are:

  McLaren (1981) The incidence of vagrant landbirds on Nova Scotian islands.
   <http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v098n02/p0243-p0257.pdf> (open access)

  McLaren et al. (2000) A notable autumn arrival of reverse migrants in
southern
Nova Scotia. N. Am. Birds 54: 4-10

  McLaren et al. (1986) Origins and characteristics of Nearctic landbirds in
Britain and Ireland in autumn: a statistical analysis.  Ibis  148: 707-728.

From these and the work of others it can surely be concluded that both
misorientation and wind patterns play a role in vagrancy.

1. Wrong-headedness is manifest in "mirror-image" misorientation, as first
invoked by De Sante (PhD dissertation 1973, et seq.) to explain the autumn
flurry of eastern Boreal Wood Warblers in California; they should be heading
SE, and instead head SW. (Choosing a "mirror image" angle occurs in rats in
experimental settings and often enough in humans, it seems.) I found (McLaren
1981)that displaced western warblers (BTGR, HEWA, TOWA, "Audubons") in spring,
were mapped as a scattering across the continent in a NE direction, at a
statistically demonstrable average mirror angle of their "intended" NW route up
the mountains or coast. I've confirmed this pattern over the years to my own
satisfaction with the addition of more data points.  This vagrancy is unlikely
attributable to wind, although of course in general SW airflow does predominate
across the continent in spring.

Surely, also, the quite frequent wandering of S. Am. species to North America
bespeaks either substantial "overshooting" of their intended destinations in
austral spring, or true "reverse migration" in austral autumn. In either case,
winds can't be invoked. although it may influence the final destinations (more
in Nova Scotia than in any northly state or province, I believe - see below for
wind effects).

2. Displacement by winds can be of two kinds, I think. There is only occasional
entrainment within cyclonic systems. A striking example was Hurricane Wilma in
2005 which carried huge numbers of seabirds, swallows, YBCU and CHSW in its
extensive eye rapidly NE from Caribbean/Florida, and they "bailed out" mostly
on the nearest land in Nova Scotia. (Interestingly, the landfall patterns
suggested that the night-migrant YBCU bailed out first, and the day-migrant [?]
swifts not until daylight.)

Then there is downwind displacement in strong geostrophic airflow.  This seems
to be part of the explanation for the pattern of arrival of "southern" vagrants
in the NE in earlier fall when the airflow is predominantly SW, and the later
appearance of "western" vagrants when zonal flow develops across the continent.
A striking example of downwind displacement occurred in early Oct. 1998
(McLaren et al. 2000) when large numbers of "southern" migrants and
out-of-season migrants were dumped along a short section of coast in southern
Nova Scotia. Statistical and weather analyses concluded that they had overshot
a cold front moving rapidly of SE USA (Offshore migation there normally makes
adaptive sense, for the usual anticyclonic wind pattern on route would bring
them more rapidly to Central and South America than would a direct flight.)
However, those that overshot got caught up in very strong SW airflow beyond the
cold front off the East Coast, and were later hurled ashore in Nova Scotia by
strong easterly winds ahead of a rapidly deepening low in the Gulf of Maine.

However, such downwind displacement is probably amplified by a tendency for
downwind flight by birds that find themselves displaced over the Atlantic or in
other unappealing circumstances. (This was first demonstrated for the NE in
neat radar studies by Richardson, 1972, N. Am. Birds 26: 10-17). Others have
suggested an obvious adaptive value to this: if you're unhappy with your
situation, the quickest way out of it is downwind. This might be true in
general but, of course, it sometimes goes wrong.

The most spectacular cases of downwind flight going wrong may be shown in the
pattern of vagrancy of N. Am. landbirds to UK and Ireland, and presumably to
mainland W. Europe as well. A statistical analysis of this pattern (McLaren et
al. 2006) concluded that the birds that did so were most often long-distance
migrants displaced offshore in October in SE USA (as in the above example, and
not, i.e., westward from from more northerly latitudes).

All this applies to vagrancy in E. N. Am. - there may be complications in W.
Europe, where there is an ongoing argument about the roles of misorientation,
winds, and random wandering in bringing birds from Siberia and the Orient.

That's probably more than I really know about the subject.

Cheers, Ian M.

Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 10:24am

All:

I would tend to agree that severe weather is general the cause of a
limited number of vagrants. I think there are some vagrancy patterns
(like Nearctic birds, especially landbirds, in Europe) where weather may
be the predominant factor in causing vagrancy. However, even this may
not be the case most of the time. It's very possible that the weather
patterns that bring birds to Europe are merely assisting already lost
birds make it across the ocean rather than just dying in the sea where
they would never be found. 

However the great majority of vagrants are intracontinental. It's hard
to see how eastern American landbirds showing up in California are
really being affected by weather since the weather in pretty nice
through most of the west in fall and many of our commonest 'vagrants'
like Blackpoll Warblers already breed well to the west further north.

Similarly in Europe, species like Radde's and Dusky Warblers are already
completely lost by the time they encounter weather systems that dump
them on the coast of the UK. In this case, the weather systems are
increasing the detectability of vagrants by concentrating them at
coastal watchpoints rather than causing the vagrancy in the first place.
The large number of rarities in desert vagrant traps in California is
strong evidence that vagrants are common over mainland areas too, it
just one needs the concentration effect to find them.

What is more interesting to me is why some species are so much more
common than other similar species as vagrants. For example, Red-throated
Pipits are probably 50-100x commoner than Yellow Wagtails in California,
but both are long-distance diurnal migrants that have similar migration
routes in Asia. They are both primarily be attracted to (and
concentrated in) damp fields/marshy areas in CA. Yellow Wagtail is a
much commoner breeder in Alaska so one might expect it to be much
commoner in CA as a vagrant.

Cape May Warbler is another species that seems much rarer as a vagrant
to CA than its breeding range and habits (not a skulker like a
Connecticut Warbler) would indicate. Most species with a similar
breeding range are much commoner in CA.

Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Software Development Systems
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian A. McLaren
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:40 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] On vagrancy

All:

I've been perhaps overly fascinated in "vagrancy" (and I still like the
term)
over the years, and have written (with others) three itenms that address
the
roles of wrong-headedness vs. wind displacement with some focus on the
East
Coast and Nova Scotia. These are:

  McLaren (1981) The incidence of vagrant landbirds on Nova Scotian
islands.
   <http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v098n02/p0243-p0257.pdf> (open
access)

  McLaren et al. (2000) A notable autumn arrival of reverse migrants in
southern
Nova Scotia. N. Am. Birds 54: 4-10

  McLaren et al. (1986) Origins and characteristics of Nearctic
landbirds in
Britain and Ireland in autumn: a statistical analysis.  Ibis  148:
707-728.

From these and the work of others it can surely be concluded that both
misorientation and wind patterns play a role in vagrancy.

1. Wrong-headedness is manifest in "mirror-image" misorientation, as
first
invoked by De Sante (PhD dissertation 1973, et seq.) to explain the
autumn
flurry of eastern Boreal Wood Warblers in California; they should be
heading
SE, and instead head SW. (Choosing a "mirror image" angle occurs in rats
in
experimental settings and often enough in humans, it seems.) I found
(McLaren
1981)that displaced western warblers (BTGR, HEWA, TOWA, "Audubons") in
spring,
were mapped as a scattering across the continent in a NE direction, at a
statistically demonstrable average mirror angle of their "intended" NW
route up
the mountains or coast. I've confirmed this pattern over the years to my
own
satisfaction with the addition of more data points.  This vagrancy is
unlikely
attributable to wind, although of course in general SW airflow does
predominate
across the continent in spring.

Surely, also, the quite frequent wandering of S. Am. species to North
America
bespeaks either substantial "overshooting" of their intended
destinations in
austral spring, or true "reverse migration" in austral autumn. In either
case,
winds can't be invoked. although it may influence the final destinations
(more
in Nova Scotia than in any northly state or province, I believe - see
below for
wind effects).

2. Displacement by winds can be of two kinds, I think. There is only
occasional
entrainment within cyclonic systems. A striking example was Hurricane
Wilma in
2005 which carried huge numbers of seabirds, swallows, YBCU and CHSW in
its
extensive eye rapidly NE from Caribbean/Florida, and they "bailed out"
mostly
on the nearest land in Nova Scotia. (Interestingly, the landfall
patterns
suggested that the night-migrant YBCU bailed out first, and the
day-migrant [?]
swifts not until daylight.)

Then there is downwind displacement in strong geostrophic airflow.  This
seems
to be part of the explanation for the pattern of arrival of "southern"
vagrants
in the NE in earlier fall when the airflow is predominantly SW, and the
later
appearance of "western" vagrants when zonal flow develops across the
continent.
A striking example of downwind displacement occurred in early Oct. 1998
(McLaren et al. 2000) when large numbers of "southern" migrants and
out-of-season migrants were dumped along a short section of coast in
southern
Nova Scotia. Statistical and weather analyses concluded that they had
overshot
a cold front moving rapidly of SE USA (Offshore migation there normally
makes
adaptive sense, for the usual anticyclonic wind pattern on route would
bring
them more rapidly to Central and South America than would a direct
flight.)
However, those that overshot got caught up in very strong SW airflow
beyond the
cold front off the East Coast, and were later hurled ashore in Nova
Scotia by
strong easterly winds ahead of a rapidly deepening low in the Gulf of
Maine.

However, such downwind displacement is probably amplified by a tendency
for
downwind flight by birds that find themselves displaced over the
Atlantic or in
other unappealing circumstances. (This was first demonstrated for the NE
in
neat radar studies by Richardson, 1972, N. Am. Birds 26: 10-17). Others
have
suggested an obvious adaptive value to this: if you're unhappy with your
situation, the quickest way out of it is downwind. This might be true in
general but, of course, it sometimes goes wrong.

The most spectacular cases of downwind flight going wrong may be shown
in the
pattern of vagrancy of N. Am. landbirds to UK and Ireland, and
presumably to
mainland W. Europe as well. A statistical analysis of this pattern
(McLaren et
al. 2006) concluded that the birds that did so were most often
long-distance
migrants displaced offshore in October in SE USA (as in the above
example, and
not, i.e., westward from from more northerly latitudes).

All this applies to vagrancy in E. N. Am. - there may be complications
in W.
Europe, where there is an ongoing argument about the roles of
misorientation,
winds, and random wandering in bringing birds from Siberia and the
Orient.

That's probably more than I really know about the subject.

Cheers, Ian M.

Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1

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Subject: vagrants as colonists (?) in MA
From: "James H. Barton" <redwingatfp1986(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 10:27am

    Hello.  I've recently learned of a theory that most vagrancy results not 
from unusual weather patterns or events, but, rather, from what might be 
called a "colonization strategy" common to different types of birds. Under 
this theory, regular vagrancy should be expected, since it represents a 
genetically-determined  attempt to open up new habitat.

    In support of seemingly similar thinking, namely, that many if most 
vagrants are not accidents, recent correspondents have cited the continued 
return of vagrants to particular areas, even including the same bird feeder.

     The following accounts of regular vagrants to MA may contribute to 
discussion of such thinking.

    1.  An Eared Grebe has been coming to the east side of Gloucester Harbor 
on Cape Ann, MA, north of Boston, for 9 to 12 consecutive years (depending 
on who you talk to).  The bird is again present this winter.

    Eared Grebe has been seen elsewhere in winter in MA, so, maybe the 
Gloucester bird is unusual.  In addition, the bird has not returned with a 
mate or a companion.  But that, of course, could result from failure to find 
a mate or a companion, not from failure to look for one.

    2.  Varied Thrush is a rare but regular winter vagrant to MA.  I don't 
know of any spring records.

    Now, why would putative colonizers come in winter?  Possible answer: 
like the few individuals of certain species who remain behind after most of 
their fellows have flown south, the Varied Thrushes who come to MA in winter 
may be looking to get a head start on good breeding territory when the time 
comes to mate.

    I'm not aware of records of any but single birds.

    2.  From l987 through 1991, an apparent total of nine Common 
Gulls --L.c.canus-- separable by age, were observed on the ice at the Fresh 
Pond Reservoir in Cambridge, MA.  Sone were present for several months.  The 
birds included two first-year, two second-year, and five adult indivuals. 
One of the two second-year had a pale eye, as did all of the adult birds.

    Pale eyes appear to be considered very unusual in nominate Common Gull, 
and to be highly indicative of Kamchatka Gull.  The first of the Fresh Pond 
series was strikingly large, and may have belonged to the latter subspecies. 
But at the time I saw the bird, I didn't have the knowledge or the resources 
to pursue an investigation.

    I'm aware of only one other MA record of nominate Common with a pale eye 
(from Falmouth, on Cape Cod, I believe).  The bird was observed duruing the 
l987-91 period.  Possibly, pale-eyed Commons are being overlooked as 
Ring-billed Gulls because observers are unaware that nominate Common can 
present considerable black at the tip of the bill in winter.  It's also 
possible that observers are reporting Common Gulls based on structural and 
plumage characters, without bothering to check out the color of the eye. 
But I doubt it.  People these days do look at a lot of detail they used to 
ignore.

    The unusual eye-color would appear to make the Fresh Pond birds 
identifiable as a group sharing a genetic abnormality.  That might make them 
an example of attempted colonization.

    We see nominate Commons of all ages in MA regularly in winter-- never 
very many, but always a few, and, to the best of my knowledge, always as 
scattered individuals.  Generally, I think if would be quite difficult to 
idenitfy one first-year bird as returning as a specific second-year bird and 
one second-year bird as returning as  specific adult bird, on the basis of 
year-to-year observations.  At Fresh Pond, however, two of the second-year 
birds were followed by adults in the immediately succeeding year (l987-1988; 
1989-90).  Possibly, the adult birds were the second-year birds of the 
previous year.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA

U.S. Coordinator, Proact
defending birds and their habitats
before it's too late
www.proact-campaigns.net

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 11:34am

A few random comments

Nick Lethaby wrote:

>What is more interesting to me is why some species are so much more
>common than other similar species as vagrants. For example, Red-throated
>Pipits are probably 50-100x commoner than Yellow Wagtails in California,
>but both are long-distance diurnal migrants that have similar migration
>routes in Asia. They are both primarily be attracted to (and
>concentrated in) damp fields/marshy areas in CA. Yellow Wagtail is a
>much commoner breeder in Alaska so one might expect it to be much
>commoner in CA as a vagrant.

The first hypothesis that comes to mind for this situation is that the
Red-throated
Pipits are not coming from the same place as the Wagtails (so not AK) and that 
there is some weather pattern that gets them and misses the Wagtails?? If that
is
meteorologically possible.

Many thanks to Dr. McLaren for sharing his results and thoughts on vagrancy in
the
northeast. That was possibly the most enlightening info I have read on patterns
I have witnessed along the east coast - especially the occurrence of "southern"
migrants in the Northeast which I came to anticipate every Oct while living in
ME.

Also shows that there is a lot of reading I have not done!

Ian McLaren wrote:
>Surely, also, the quite frequent wandering of S. Am. species to North
>America bespeaks either substantial "overshooting" of their intended
>destinations in austral spring, or true "reverse migration" in austral autumn.
In either
>case, winds can't be invoked. although it may influence the final destinations
>(more in Nova Scotia than in any northly state or province, I believe - see
>below for wind effects).

Two recent birds - the Fork-tailed Flycatcher in PA this past June which was
believed to have been T. s. monachus (fabulous photos
here:http://www.dvoc.org/DelValBirding/Species/ForkedFly/index.htm  )
and the Tropical Kingbird currently in MD (see http://www.billhubick.com/ for
some
fabulous photos of this bird) have made me wonder about the notion of vagrant 
tyrannids coming from the more southerly portion of the ranges. 

T. s. monachus is according to Howell and Webb supposedly resident but nomadic
in northern C. America and southeastern Mexico.

After seeing the Topical Kingbird in MD on 12/31 I looked through specimens here
 at
ANSP and am of the opinion that the MD bird is in first basic plumage and not of
 either
of the austral migrant races; nominate or despotes, and is most likely satrapa.
(which
includes occidentalis in HBW and Clements fifth ed.)

I have not looked into other Tropical Kingbird recs. beyond what is noted in
Pyle 1997
but it would seem overshooting and reverse migration may account for some of
these birds
but that extreme nomadism may also be involved.

Finally I have heard some stories of vagrants being collected only to have the
same
species turn up in the same location at the same time in following years, so
while it is
most likely that past records, especially of waterfowl, pertain to returning
individual which
have wound up in the "wrong" winter location and then imprinted on that location
 and migration
route it may not always be the case. Ash-throated Flycatchers, Cave Swallows,
and of course
Rufous Hummingbirds seem to provide clear cases here in the NE of a species
which is
subject to some combination of mechanisms which result in a small but repeated
number of
individuals being prone to vagrancy. and it is these sorts of patterns which may
 indicate an
adaptive or evolutionary significance to lost birds, at least more so than
patterns involving
individual birds

I think there are multiple discrete mechanisms involved here - both intrinsic
and
extrinsic such that no single theory can explain all of them though it seems
clear t
hat while random chance plays a role it cannot account for all the various
patterns.

Matt

Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
http://vireo.acnatsci.org
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: "Wayne C. Weber" <contopus(AT)TELUS.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 11:54am

Martin,

I don't believe anyone in this discussion suggested that 
"intercontinental vagrants" such as the California Sky Lark,
which wintered in the same place for several successive years,
return each year to their point of origin (presumably eastern
Asia for the Sky Lark). Certainly, I did not state or suggest 
that such birds returned each summer to their point of
origin, although that is a distinct possibility.

My point was simply that, although unusual weather patterns
may (or may not) have been a causal factor in the original
occurrence of the Sky Lark in California (and similar cases),
they could not have been responsible for the bird's
re-occurrence in California in each of several successive winters.

Ian, thank you for your detailed comments on the occurrence of
vagrants in Nova Scotia and elsewhere in eastern North America.
The subject of long-distance vagrancy in birds has been discussed
in detail in publications by a number of ornithologists, which
many of us (myself included) ought to be more familiar with.

Wayne C. Weber
Delta, BC
contopus(AT)telus.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Reid" <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Causes of extreme vagrancy

Dear all,

I'd like to thank Alan Wormington for his email offering an elegant 
solution to the "vagrant" issue on checklists; I'll certainly be 
using it (or a variation of it) in future documents.

However, I feel compelled to question the notion that the Californian 
Skylark (or any returning intercontinental "vagrant") travelled to 
and from it's adopted winter quarters and its original point (or 
region) of origin.  It may be that each Spring such birds attempt to 
reorient somehow and end up for the summer in an equivalent 
latitude/habitat in the new continent for the summer, before 
returning faithfully to their winter territory.  The urge to breed 
may lead some of these birds to become "vagrant" Summer wanderers in 
the new continent, and maybe some end up somewhere they can find a 
mate (not necessarily of the same species...)  There was a first 
winter Black-headed Gull found in Forth Worth, Texas that was banded 
near Helsinki, Finland ; it returned to Fort Worth for three more 
winters.  I seriously doubt that each summer it went back to the Old 
World - but then it didn't need to to find a mate, as there are BHGUs 
breeding in the far NE of North America.  My gut tells me that the 
returning Falcated Duck in California probably spent its summers in 
the boreal New World fraternizing with other dabbling ducks.

The Skylark of course seems SOL in terms of finding someone to party 
with (what about Horned Lark?), but is there any firm evidence of 
intercontinental "vagrants" (especially passerines) making it back to 
their continent of origin?   The only one I know of is a Ring--billed 
Gull that was banded in Canada, seen in Spain (I think) and then seen 
again in North America - but gulls are scavenging seabirds for whom 
almost any habitat is one they can exploit (or at least survive). 
The challenges for passerines are much higher.

Perhaps my point of view is coloured by my European origins, where 
New World songbirds arrive in small but regular numbers each Fall 
(with a tiny number in Springs).  It is thought they are mostly 
carried by fast-moving transAtlantic storms and thus mostly 
weather-driven "vagrants".  I doubt any of them that survive make it 
back to the New World.  There are lots of New World shorebirds that 
arrive in Europe in Fall, and a few have been seen in late 
Spring/Summer in the equivalent breeding latitudes in northern Europe 
and Scandinavia attempting to mate (sometimes succeeding) with their 
Old World counterpart, so it seems that these birds have stayed in 
their new continent and are trying to make the best of it!

Taking the experiment mentioned by Alvaro a step further, has anyone 
tried "forced vagrancy" on first-time southbound migrants, to see if 
they the return in the summer to their area of origin?

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Alan Contreras <acontrer(AT)MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 1:20pm

I recall reading a couple of years ago that Red-throated Pipit appears in
numbers on central Pacific islands in migration, which wagtail does not.
The author speculated that the RT pipits in California are actually
trans-Pacific birds rather than NW Alaska birds.  I don't remember where I
read this but if someone knows the citation, please post it.

One odd note is that Oregon's first fall Rt Pipit was at a lake in the
forested high Cascades 140 miles from the coast, and the second was two
full-color birds in late April on the south coast.  We simply don't get the
regular fall flow of them that California does, and trust me, we've been
looking very hard for 25 years.

-- 
Alan Contreras
EUGENE, OREGON
acontrer(AT)mindspring.com

> From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
> Reply-To: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:34:47 -0500
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] On vagrancy
> 
> A few random comments
> 
> Nick Lethaby wrote:
> 
>> What is more interesting to me is why some species are so much more
>> common than other similar species as vagrants. For example, Red-throated
>> Pipits are probably 50-100x commoner than Yellow Wagtails in California,
>> but both are long-distance diurnal migrants that have similar migration
>> routes in Asia. They are both primarily be attracted to (and
>> concentrated in) damp fields/marshy areas in CA. Yellow Wagtail is a
>> much commoner breeder in Alaska so one might expect it to be much
>> commoner in CA as a vagrant.
> 
> The first hypothesis that comes to mind for this situation is that the
> Red-throated
> Pipits are not coming from the same place as the Wagtails (so not AK) and
that
> there is some weather pattern that gets them and misses the Wagtails?? If
that
> is 
> meteorologically possible.
> 
> Many thanks to Dr. McLaren for sharing his results and thoughts on vagrancy
in
> the 
> northeast. That was possibly the most enlightening info I have read on
> patterns
> I have witnessed along the east coast - especially the occurrence of
> "southern" 
> migrants in the Northeast which I came to anticipate every Oct while living
in
> ME.
> 
> Also shows that there is a lot of reading I have not done!
> 
> Ian McLaren wrote:
>> Surely, also, the quite frequent wandering of S. Am. species to North
>> America bespeaks either substantial "overshooting" of their intended
>> destinations in austral spring, or true "reverse migration" in austral
>> autumn. In either
>> case, winds can't be invoked. although it may influence the final
>> destinations
>> (more in Nova Scotia than in any northly state or province, I believe - see
>> below for wind effects).
> 
> Two recent birds - the Fork-tailed Flycatcher in PA this past June which was
> believed to have been T. s. monachus (fabulous photos
> here:http://www.dvoc.org/DelValBirding/Species/ForkedFly/index.htm  )
> and the Tropical Kingbird currently in MD (see http://www.billhubick.com/ for
> some 
> fabulous photos of this bird) have made me wonder about the notion of vagrant
> tyrannids coming from the more southerly portion of the ranges.
> 
> T. s. monachus is according to Howell and Webb supposedly resident but
nomadic
> in northern C. America and southeastern Mexico.
> 
> After seeing the Topical Kingbird in MD on 12/31 I looked through specimens
> here at
> ANSP and am of the opinion that the MD bird is in first basic plumage and not
> of either
> of the austral migrant races; nominate or despotes, and is most likely
> satrapa. (which 
> includes occidentalis in HBW and Clements fifth ed.)
> 
> I have not looked into other Tropical Kingbird recs. beyond what is noted in
> Pyle 1997 
> but it would seem overshooting and reverse migration may account for some of
> these birds
> but that extreme nomadism may also be involved.
> 
> Finally I have heard some stories of vagrants being collected only to have
the
> same 
> species turn up in the same location at the same time in following years, so
> while it is
> most likely that past records, especially of waterfowl, pertain to returning
> individual which
> have wound up in the "wrong" winter location and then imprinted on that
> location and migration
> route it may not always be the case. Ash-throated Flycatchers, Cave Swallows,
> and of course
> Rufous Hummingbirds seem to provide clear cases here in the NE of a species
> which is 
> subject to some combination of mechanisms which result in a small but
repeated
> number of
> individuals being prone to vagrancy. and it is these sorts of patterns which
> may indicate an 
> adaptive or evolutionary significance to lost birds, at least more so than
> patterns involving
> individual birds
> 
> I think there are multiple discrete mechanisms involved here - both intrinsic
> and
> extrinsic such that no single theory can explain all of them though it seems
> clear t
> hat while random chance plays a role it cannot account for all the various
> patterns.
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Sharp
> Collection Manager
> VIREO/ANS
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
> Philadelphia PA 19103
> http://vireo.acnatsci.org
> (tel.) 215-299-1069
> (fax) 215-299-1182
> 
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 4:04pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_74agg4UBvbMC8UJkEQ7Lww)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Red-throated Pipits Anthus cervinus migrate later than Yellow Wagtails =
Motacilla flava subspec.! If there are strong easterly winds blowing =
during the last week of September Red-throated Pipits may reach W.Europe =
same as juv.Little Stints Calidris minuta and Curlew Sandpipers Calidris =
ferruginea ! Yellow Wagtails migrate mainly in August and the first days =
of September. Each year large numbers of Great and BlueTits Parus major =
and Parus caeruleus follow the Baltic coast from Lithuania into Poland =
during the last week of September, they may reach the Dutch coast some =
fourteen days later but only if during those fourteen days the wind =
blows from the east! If during those two weeks the wind is westerly the =
tits won't be able come much further than the eastern part of Germany no =
matter how many birdtables are waiting for them in Holland! Ruffs =
Philomachus pugnax have flown from Europe to the Caribbean but were only =
able to do so with tailwinds! The list with such examples is endless, =
each migrating species can and will be blown off course if they =
encounter the wrong kind of weather or wind direction during their =
migration. Radar studies have shown that night migrating passerines look =
for a layer with tailwinds when they begin their journey at dusk, when =
they find one they go for it, even when the wind brings them in a =
direcion we would consider as wrong! Many Blackcaps Sylvia atricapilla =
fly NW during September from the Low countries whereas we expect them to =
fly SW if they originate from west of 15 degrees East or SE it they =
originate from east of that longitude on the basis of recoveries of =
ringed birds.What's wrong with these Blackcaps? Damaged genes? Are they, =
as has been suggested lured by British bird tables? Nothing of the sort, =
during September SE winds frequently prevail, when the Blackcaps begin =
their journey at night they fly up in circles until they are being =
picked up by the SE tailwind and make the most of it as was shown by an =
individual I ringed near The Hague in The Netherlands and which was =
found on Shetland the next day, a 20 gram bird which covered a distance =
of 1,000 km's aided by a strong tailwind! Since then many more such =
recoveries occurred and always under similar weather conditions.=20
Norman

birdsAlan Contreras>I recall reading a couple of years ago that =
Red-throated Pipit appears in
> numbers on central Pacific islands in migration, which wagtail does =
not.
> The author speculated that the RT pipits in California are actually
> trans-Pacific birds rather than NW Alaska birds.  I don't remember =
where I
> read this but if someone knows the citation, please post it.
>=20
> One odd note is that Oregon's first fall Rt Pipit was at a lake in the
> forested high Cascades 140 miles from the coast, and the second was =
two
> full-color birds in late April on the south coast.  We simply don't =
get the
> regular fall flow of them that California does, and trust me, we've =
been
> looking very hard for 25 years.
>> Nick Lethaby wrote:
>>=20
>>> What is more interesting to me is why some species are so much more
>>> common than other similar species as vagrants. For example, =
Red-throated
>>> Pipits are probably 50-100x commoner than Yellow Wagtails in =
California,
>>> but both are long-distance diurnal migrants that have similar =
migration
>>> routes in Asia. They are both primarily be attracted to (and
>>> concentrated in) damp fields/marshy areas in CA. Yellow Wagtail is a
>>> much commoner breeder in Alaska so one might expect it to be much
>>> commoner in CA as a vagrant.
>>=20
>> The first hypothesis that comes to mind for this situation is that =
the
>> Red-throated
>> Pipits are not coming from the same place as the Wagtails (so not AK) =
and that
>> there is some weather pattern that gets them and misses the =
Wagtails?? If that
>> is=20
>> meteorologically possible.
>>=20
>> Many thanks to Dr. McLaren for sharing his results and thoughts on =
vagrancy in
>> the=20
>> northeast. That was possibly the most enlightening info I have read =
on
>> patterns
>> I have witnessed along the east coast - especially the occurrence of
>> "southern"=20
>> migrants in the Northeast which I came to anticipate every Oct while =
living in
>> ME.
>>=20
>> Also shows that there is a lot of reading I have not done!
>>=20
>> Ian McLaren wrote:
>>> Surely, also, the quite frequent wandering of S. Am. species to =
North
>>> America bespeaks either substantial "overshooting" of their intended
>>> destinations in austral spring, or true "reverse migration" in =
austral
>>> autumn. In either
>>> case, winds can't be invoked. although it may influence the final
>>> destinations
>>> (more in Nova Scotia than in any northly state or province, I =
believe - see
>>> below for wind effects).
>>=20
>> Two recent birds - the Fork-tailed Flycatcher in PA this past June =
which was
>> believed to have been T. s. monachus (fabulous photos
>> here:http://www.dvoc.org/DelValBirding/Species/ForkedFly/index.htm  )
>> and the Tropical Kingbird currently in MD (see =
http://www.billhubick.com/ for
>> some=20
>> fabulous photos of this bird) have made me wonder about the notion of =
vagrant
>> tyrannids coming from the more southerly portion of the ranges.
>>=20
>> T. s. monachus is according to Howell and Webb supposedly resident =
but nomadic
>> in northern C. America and southeastern Mexico.
>>=20
>> After seeing the Topical Kingbird in MD on 12/31 I looked through =
specimens
>> here at
>> ANSP and am of the opinion that the MD bird is in first basic plumage =
and not
>> of either
>> of the austral migrant races; nominate or despotes, and is most =
likely
>> satrapa. (which=20
>> includes occidentalis in HBW and Clements fifth ed.)
>>=20
>> I have not looked into other Tropical Kingbird recs. beyond what is =
noted in
>> Pyle 1997=20
>> but it would seem overshooting and reverse migration may account for =
some of
>> these birds
>> but that extreme nomadism may also be involved.
>>=20
>> Finally I have heard some stories of vagrants being collected only to =
have the
>> same=20
>> species turn up in the same location at the same time in following =
years, so
>> while it is
>> most likely that past records, especially of waterfowl, pertain to =
returning
>> individual which
>> have wound up in the "wrong" winter location and then imprinted on =
that
>> location and migration
>> route it may not always be the case. Ash-throated Flycatchers, Cave =
Swallows,
>> and of course
>> Rufous Hummingbirds seem to provide clear cases here in the NE of a =
species
>> which is=20
>> subject to some combination of mechanisms which result in a small but =
repeated
>> number of
>> individuals being prone to vagrancy. and it is these sorts of =
patterns which
>> may indicate an=20
>> adaptive or evolutionary significance to lost birds, at least more so =
than
>> patterns involving
>> individual birds
>>=20
>> I think there are multiple discrete mechanisms involved here - both =
intrinsic
>> and
>> extrinsic such that no single theory can explain all of them though =
it seems
>> clear t
>> hat while random chance plays a role it cannot account for all the =
various
>> patterns.
>>=20
>> Matt
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Matt Sharp
>> Collection Manager
>> VIREO/ANS
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
>> Philadelphia PA 19103
>> http://vireo.acnatsci.org
>> (tel.) 215-299-1069
>> (fax) 215-299-1182
>>=20
>>=20
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: =
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01
>>=20
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>=20
>=20
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: =
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>=20
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html=

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Subject: Re: vagrancy
From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jim_Pike?= <jpike44(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 4:55pm

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:59:44 -0500, Smith, Michael 
<Michael.Smith(AT)MAINE.GOV> wrote:

>A pair of Sooty Terns showed up in
>San Diego two years in a row, they even mate and lay an egg, but both
>stand out like sore thumbs among the "white" terns in the area, and both
>are eaten by Peregrines within 5 days of the nesting.  What brought the
>birds so far from their nearest colonies?  Unlikely to be weather, more
>likely an innate sense to wander and explore, or an innate error in
>their internal "compass".  Either way, that species tried breeding on
>new ground and failed.
>
>

One thing about the breeding pair of Sooty Terns in CA in 1997 is that 
they were part of a larger phenomenon involving multiple birds (a minimum 
of 3-4?) in several coastal counties (and including northern Baja) over a 
period of several years. Their appearance was tied to an increase in ocean 
temperatures, although I expect there must have been other factors 
involved at the population level to account for multiple birds and the 
species absence in subsequent years, despite additional periods of warm 
water. Of course, the smaller the time frame, the less clear the pattern.  

Jim Pike
Huntington Beach, CA

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Laurent Raty <l.raty(AT)SKYNET.BE>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 5:27pm

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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Norman,

> Many Blackcaps Sylvia atricapilla fly NW during September from the Low
> countries whereas we expect them to fly SW if they originate from west =
of
> 15 degrees East or SE it they originate from east of that longitude on =
the
> basis of recoveries of ringed birds. What's wrong with these =
Blackcaps?
> Damaged genes? Are they, as has been suggested lured by British bird
> tables? Nothing of the sort, during September SE winds frequently =
prevail,
> when the Blackcaps begin their journey at night they fly up in circles
> until they are being picked up by the SE tailwind and make the most of =
it
> as was shown by an individual I ringed near The Hague in The =
Netherlands
> and which was found on Shetland the next day, a 20 gram bird which =
covered
> a distance of 1,000 km's aided by a strong tailwind!

I think you should (re)read :

Helbig A.J. (1991) : Inheritance of migratory direction in a bird =
species: a
  cross-breeding experiment with SE- and SW-migrating blackcaps (Sylvia
  atricapilla). Behav. Ecol. Sociobiol. 28 : 9 - 12.
Bearhop S., Fiedler W., Furness R.W., Votier S.C., Waldron S., Newton =
J.,
  Bowen G.J., Berthold P., Farnsworth K. (2005) : Assortative mating as =
a
  mechanism for rapid evolution of a migratory divide. Science 310 : 502 =
-
  504.

The migratory direction of Blackcaps seems clearly genetically =
determined,
and heritable - birds issued from crossings between parents taking =
different
directions tend to follow a direction intermediate between that taken by =
the
parents.
A significant proportion of the Central European populations of =
Blackcaps
now migrates NW, to winter in Britain and Ireland, and this doesn't seem =
to
be related to the weather in any way. Instead, these birds appear to =
form a
distinct sub-population. They return to their breeding grounds earlier =
than
those that take the classical SW direction, and tend to pair =
assortatively
due to their breeding being temporally segregated from the breeding of =
the
rest of the population. They have a better reproductive success, =
possibly
because their earlier return allows them to choose the best territories,
and this trait currently seems to be under strong positive selective
pressure.

Groeten,
--
Laurent Raty
l.raty(AT)skynet.be
Brussels, Belgium

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Subject: A recent "vagrant" to ponder
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 9:01pm

Everyone,

With the recent discussion on vagrancy still "hot" I thought readers
would be interested in the following.

Since early November a GREEN-TAILED TOWHEE has been at a bird-feeder at
Mountain Lake, Cottonwood County, Minnesota, which is in the southwest
corner of the state.

Birders apparently did not discover the bird until January 1, and were
surprised to see that it was sporting a band!  The many photographers
there finally obtained enough photos that the band number could be
determined.

One would expect that the bird was perhaps banded in some place like
Utah.  But no, it had been banded on the north shore of Lake Superior at
Thunder Cape, Ontario -- on June 10, 2006!

So did this Green-tailed Towhee return to its normal range after June 10
and then return to Minnesota during the fall, or did it remain all summer
somewhere in the Ontario--Minnesota area?

Either way, an amazing record.

Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: David Muth <dpmuth(AT)COX.NET>
Date: 10 Jan 2007 9:02pm

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Since our listowner seems to be indulging this thread, I'll throw in my =
two cents:

=20

Fascinating subject, and a number of great emails to ponder. We don't =
yet have the technology or investigative techniques we'd need to root =
out all the answers on vagrancy, but we can at least examine our =
assumptions and beliefs.

=20

1)      Once a bird vagrates (forgive me for re-using someone else's =
useful but inelegant coinage), what it does for the rest of its life is =
irrelevant-that can't elucidate the original cause of vagrancy.

2)      A behavior or trait in an individual organism, such as the =
tendency to vagrate, cannot occur because it might ultimately benefit a =
population. Evolution does not have a goal or purpose. Populations don't =
have the capacity to sprinkle vagrancy genes into individuals because by =
pioneering new territories these individuals might benefit the =
population.  Vagrancy genes occur as the result of random mutations. =
They persist only if they confer fitness on an individual and an =
individual's offspring. They might therefore by chance benefit a =
population, but vagrancy genes are not maintained by populations for the =
benefit of populations. They occur at random.

3)      These genes are by definition abnormal, and therefore aberrant. =
Aberrant does not mean bad. Einstein was aberrant. Mozart was aberrant. =
Michael Jordan is aberrant.

4)      Some vagrancy is caused by weather-tubenoses entrained in the =
eye of a hurricane for instance. McLaren's lucid description of the =
patterns seen on Canadian islands and peninsulas, or in Iceland or =
Ireland, provide ample evidence. Note however that (except in truly =
extreme weather like hurricanes), the weather effect only works as a =
complete explanation when landbirds find themselves over water and fly =
downwind until they reach land, or when seabirds are caught over land =
and keep going searching for water. This explains much of the vagrancy =
seen in the British Isles, and naturally colors the European view of =
vagrancy. It might be the solution to the Red-throated Pipit/ Yellow =
Wagtail riddle. It also helps explain some of the more spectacular =
vagrants we see, such as the recent Lesser Frigatebirds from Michigan =
and Wyoming, but only so far.

5)      Examination of wind patterns or hurricanes can help us explain =
why they might have kept moving over land until hopelessly far inland, =
but not why they were in the wrong hemisphere in the first place. A =
hurricane may have put a Lesser Frigatebird over the continental U.S., =
but it did not snatch one out of the South Atlantic or tropical Pacific.

6)      Except in those cases of figurative fishes out of water, weather =
patterns seem unlikely to explain vagrancy.  Birds are not blown about =
willy-nilly by the winds. Carolina Chickadees don't show up in Chicago =
every time the wind howls from the south. Winds may facilitate vagrants, =
but they don't cause all vagrancy. A landbird caught up in winds blowing =
it contrary to its intended direction always has an option when over =
land-it can land. So too a seabird over the sea. (Which is why, of =
course, frigatebirds, which can't alight in the sea, are the single most =
common hurricane vagrant marine bird. Strong flyers, most are not =
entrained, but ride the outlying gale bands of a storm, getting carried =
far inland as they circle the moving system.)

7)      When Cave Swallows began showing up in the upper Midwest and on =
the Atlantic coast much was made of continental weather patterns. But =
the wind patterns may have explained the mechanism the swallows used to =
go where they intended to go, but it is contrary to all evidence to =
suggest that for the first time in birder recorded history Cave Swallows =
in Texas were swept up into southwest winds and carried to Michigan, as =
if the wind had never blown from the southwest before.=20

8)      Those swallows may have used those winds, but something =
intrinsic in those individual swallows changed. In a brief span of time, =
a bunch of Cave Swallows came along intent on following a new migration =
route and used a common weather phenomenon to forge new migration =
routes. The change had to be genetic and it might have spread rapidly as =
a secondary characteristic of a particularly robust and =
fitness-conferring mutation, or the new migration trait itself might =
have been a recurring mutation that conferred fitness suddenly in the =
face of changing environmental circumstances. Of course, a rapidly =
expanding population of Cave Swallows may have amplified a theretofore =
hidden phenomenon, but I seriously doubt that the occasional but regular =
Cave Swallow was slipping past East Coast observers at places like Cape =
May during a season when a Cliff Swallow would have attracted =
considerable attention. This was not a case of a cryptic species going =
by under the radar. Something fundamental changed, and it was not the =
direction of the wind in Texas.

=20

But enough.

=20

David Muth

New Orleans

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 12:47am

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My turn for two cents worth on vagrancy.  As for extreme vagrants
showing site fidelity how about a Ring-billed Gull that I saw one
October in St. John's, Newfoundland with a Norwegian band!  The band was
read. It had been banded at a city park in Bergen, Norway.  The best
part is that it was back in Bergen the following winter!! And for that
matter I think it returned for the bread handouts in the Bergen for a
couple more winters. However the bird was not noticed again in
Newfoundland. This is just one case of site fidelity that doesn't seem
to make sense when it comes to survival of the individual.  Surely the
bread wasn't that bad in St. John's. 
 
The following is more of question than an explanation. Why does the
Atlantic Provinces get large numbers or southern passerine vagrants in
fall compared to spring? By southern passerines I mean species with a
breeding range mainly south of Atlantic Canada but includes the New
England States and southward. Species like Prairie Warbler,
Yellow-breasted Chat and Yellow-billed Cuckoo which occur by the dozens
every fall (Sept-Oct) in Atlantic Canada yet close to never in the
spring. And why do places like well watched Pt Pelee and Long Point and
other locations on the Great Lakes which are much closer to the breeding
ranges or even within the breeding ranges of these species not get the
same influx of these species in the fall?
 
Here on the Avalon Peninsula at the southeast corner of Newfoundland in
fall we watch for a southwest airflow after the passing of a Low
Pressure area to bring in southern passerine vagrants. The best days for
southern passerine arrivals are often clear days with a light to
moderate SW wind. A wind that migrating birds should be able to handle
without being pushed off course.  
 
My theory is the Fear of Water Theory.  Say the little Prairie Warbler
takes off from the Northeastern US during a nice night of migration but
then sometime in the night finds itself over water, a lot of water, the
Atlantic Ocean.  Thoughts of migration become secondary to looking for
the safety of land. Crossing large bodies of waters at this point in the
migration route is not programmed into the bird.  The fastest way to
make tracks is go with the wind even if this means being carried farther
out to sea. The Prairie Warbler probably doesn't know how big the
Atlantic Ocean is. Finding land, food and water, is the only thing on
the birds mind and going with the wind is the only option.  Countless
Prairie Warblers and cohorts must drop into the ocean. The Atlantic
Ocean must be the biggest killer of migrant passerines in eastern North
America.  The strong or lucky (?) Prairie Warblers that kept going on
the right angle found Atlantic Canada. The Avalon Peninsula is 1500 km
from Cape Cod. When the Prairie Warblers get here they look as spritey
and alive as you'd expect anywhere. 
 
It is not just Prairie Warblers.  Rare but regular fall southern warbler
finds are Cerulean, Golden-winged, Blue-winged, Kentucky, Hooded,
Prothonotary and Worm-eating Warblers.  There is a host of other less
exciting species that also are thought to come on the same SW expressway
as the sought after southern warblers.  Red-eyed Vireo is a very scarce
breeder in Newfoundland yet is one of the commoner passerines in
September and October on the south east Avalon Peninsula with day counts
of 20+ regular and once a record 75. I consider these vagrants as I
think they also came from the northeastern United States.  We talk of
them as flavour birds. The number of Red-eyed Vireo present is often an
indication of your chances of finding a southern warbler gem. Northern
Oriole is another of the more numerous vagrants.  
 
The question remains why fall and not spring.  Possibly it is largely
inexperienced young birds making the mistakes. When the age of vagrant
warblers is identifiable in the field they are nearly always immature
birds.  The survival rate of birds making this huge mistake may be low.
How many little Prairie Warblers can navigate 1500 km or more back to
where they started from.  The birds typically leave a day or so after
arrival though some decide to linger and become trapped by poor weather
conditions and become November statistics. Prairie Warbler is one of the
more regular fatalistic November warblers in St. John's.
 
More questions than answers.
 
One more to throw out. Why does Newfoundland have 25 x more records of
Lark Sparrow than Vesper Sparrow? Vesper Sparrow is often common in the
same areas that Lark Sparrows breed. And Vespers of course breed much
farther east.  I guess it is like comparing Yellow Wagtails with
Red-throated Pipits in California. It is not really meaningful to make
the comparison but it is curious why Lark Sparrows regularly end up
1000s of km east of where the majority of the species is. Can't be any
benefit to the species or the individual.
 
Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca
 
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Muth
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:23 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] On vagrancy
 
Since our listowner seems to be indulging this thread, I'll throw in my
two cents:
 
Fascinating subject, and a number of great emails to ponder. We don't
yet have the technology or investigative techniques we'd need to root
out all the answers on vagrancy, but we can at least examine our
assumptions and beliefs.
 
1)      Once a bird vagrates (forgive me for re-using someone else's
useful but inelegant coinage), what it does for the rest of its life is
irrelevant-that can't elucidate the original cause of vagrancy.
2)      A behavior or trait in an individual organism, such as the
tendency to vagrate, cannot occur because it might ultimately benefit a
population. Evolution does not have a goal or purpose. Populations don't
have the capacity to sprinkle vagrancy genes into individuals because by
pioneering new territories these individuals might benefit the
population.  Vagrancy genes occur as the result of random mutations.
They persist only if they confer fitness on an individual and an
individual's offspring. They might therefore by chance benefit a
population, but vagrancy genes are not maintained by populations for the
benefit of populations. They occur at random.
3)      These genes are by definition abnormal, and therefore aberrant.
Aberrant does not mean bad. Einstein was aberrant. Mozart was aberrant.
Michael Jordan is aberrant.
4)      Some vagrancy is caused by weather-tubenoses entrained in the
eye of a hurricane for instance. McLaren's lucid description of the
patterns seen on Canadian islands and peninsulas, or in Iceland or
Ireland, provide ample evidence. Note however that (except in truly
extreme weather like hurricanes), the weather effect only works as a
complete explanation when landbirds find themselves over water and fly
downwind until they reach land, or when seabirds are caught over land
and keep going searching for water. This explains much of the vagrancy
seen in the British Isles, and naturally colors the European view of
vagrancy. It might be the solution to the Red-throated Pipit/ Yellow
Wagtail riddle. It also helps explain some of the more spectacular
vagrants we see, such as the recent Lesser Frigatebirds from Michigan
and Wyoming, but only so far.
5)      Examination of wind patterns or hurricanes can help us explain
why they might have kept moving over land until hopelessly far inland,
but not why they were in the wrong hemisphere in the first place. A
hurricane may have put a Lesser Frigatebird over the continental U.S.,
but it did not snatch one out of the South Atlantic or tropical Pacific.
6)      Except in those cases of figurative fishes out of water, weather
patterns seem unlikely to explain vagrancy.  Birds are not blown about
willy-nilly by the winds. Carolina Chickadees don't show up in Chicago
every time the wind howls from the south. Winds may facilitate vagrants,
but they don't cause all vagrancy. A landbird caught up in winds blowing
it contrary to its intended direction always has an option when over
land-it can land. So too a seabird over the sea. (Which is why, of
course, frigatebirds, which can't alight in the sea, are the single most
common hurricane vagrant marine bird. Strong flyers, most are not
entrained, but ride the outlying gale bands of a storm, getting carried
far inland as they circle the moving system.)
7)      When Cave Swallows began showing up in the upper Midwest and on
the Atlantic coast much was made of continental weather patterns. But
the wind patterns may have explained the mechanism the swallows used to
go where they intended to go, but it is contrary to all evidence to
suggest that for the first time in birder recorded history Cave Swallows
in Texas were swept up into southwest winds and carried to Michigan, as
if the wind had never blown from the southwest before. 
8)      Those swallows may have used those winds, but something
intrinsic in those individual swallows changed. In a brief span of time,
a bunch of Cave Swallows came along intent on following a new migration
route and used a common weather phenomenon to forge new migration
routes. The change had to be genetic and it might have spread rapidly as
a secondary characteristic of a particularly robust and
fitness-conferring mutation, or the new migration trait itself might
have been a recurring mutation that conferred fitness suddenly in the
face of changing environmental circumstances. Of course, a rapidly
expanding population of Cave Swallows may have amplified a theretofore
hidden phenomenon, but I seriously doubt that the occasional but regular
Cave Swallow was slipping past East Coast observers at places like Cape
May during a season when a Cliff Swallow would have attracted
considerable attention. This was not a case of a cryptic species going
by under the radar. Something fundamental changed, and it was not the
direction of the wind in Texas.
 
But enough.
 
David Muth
New Orleans
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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Robert Wallace <chnuts(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 5:11am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Bruce and all - this has been a very interesting thread.  I am not sure the=
re is a fear of water though.  Many passerine species are trans-Gulf and tr=
ans-Atlantic migrants (eg  eastern US takeoff points for the Bahamas and Ca=
ribbean islands) that make passages of 500 mi or more over open water.  We =
regularly see individual warblers 100 mi offshore of the E coast of FL, hea=
ding SE for the Bahamas, in which they probably jumped off of North Carolin=
a for points south.  In addition to warblers are ducks (not just sea ducks)=
, swallows, shorebirds and frequently herons such as Great Blue and Great E=
gret - very surprising to see these 100 mi off!=0A=0AI think a simpler theo=
ry is what you alluded to:  young birds taking off in good weather, and bei=
ng swept up by a counter-clockwise flowing low pressure system moving from =
up from the SW, and dumped off in the Maritimes as soon as they see land.  =
Migrant fall-out in FL is very wind-direction oriented.  A west wind stacks=
 up Caribbean migrants (in the spring such as Blackpoll and Cape May Warble=
r) on the east coast of FL, but an east wind (which you would think would p=
ush birds into the first land they see), actually pushes them west, so they=
 end up working north along the west coast of FL.=0A=0ABob Wallace=0ANew Sm=
yrna Beach FL=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bruce Mactavish <bru=
ce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>=0ATo: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=0ASent: =
Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:47:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: [BIRDWG01] On vagrancy=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=
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=0A=0A=0A=0AMy turn for two cents=0Aworth on vagrancy.  As for extreme vagr=
ants showing site=0Afidelity how about a Ring-billed Gull that I saw one Oc=
tober in St. John=92s,=0ANewfoundland with a Norwegian band! =0AThe band wa=
s read. It had been banded at a city park in Bergen, Norway.  The best part=
 is that=0Ait was back in Bergen the following winter!! And for that matter=
 I think it returned for=0Athe bread handouts in the Bergen for a couple mo=
re winters. However the bird was not noticed again=0Ain Newfoundland. This =
is just one case of site fidelity that doesn=92t seem to=0Amake sense when =
it comes to survival of the individual.  Surely the bread wasn=92t that bad=
=0Ain St. John=92s. =0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AThe following is more of question=
 than an explanation.=0AWhy does the Atlantic=0A  Provinces get large=0Anum=
bers or southern passerine vagrants in fall compared to spring? By southern=
=0Apasserines I mean species with a breeding range mainly south of Atlantic=
 Canada=0Abut includes the New England States and southward.=0ASpecies like=
 Prairie Warbler, Yellow-breasted Chat and Yellow-billed Cuckoo=0Awhich occ=
ur by the dozens every fall (Sept-Oct) in Atlantic Canada yet close to=0Ane=
ver in the spring. And why do places like well watched Pt Pelee and Long=0A=
Point and other locations on the Great Lakes which=0Aare much closer to the=
 breeding ranges or even within the breeding ranges of=0Athese species not =
get the same influx of these species in the fall?=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AHere=
 on the Avalon Peninsula at the southeast=0Acorner of Newfoundland in fall =
we watch for a southwest airflow after the passing of a=0ALow Pressure area=
 to bring in southern passerine vagrants. The best days for=0Asouthern pass=
erine arrivals are often clear days with a light to moderate SW=0Awind. A w=
ind that migrating birds should be able to handle without=0Abeing pushed of=
f course.  =0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AMy theory is the Fear of Water Theory.  Sa=
y the little Prairie Warbler takes off=0Afrom the Northeastern US during a =
nice night of migration but then sometime in the night finds=0Aitself over =
water, a lot of water, the Atlantic Ocean.  Thoughts of migration become se=
condary=0Ato looking for the safety of land. Crossing large bodies of water=
s at this=0Apoint in the migration route is not programmed into the bird.  =
The fastest way to make tracks is go=0Awith the wind even if this means bei=
ng carried farther out to sea. The Prairie=0AWarbler probably doesn=92t kno=
w how big the Atlantic Ocean is. Finding=0Aland, food and water, is the onl=
y thing on the birds mind and going with the=0Awind is the only option.  Co=
untless=0APrairie Warblers and cohorts must drop into the ocean. The Atlant=
ic Ocean must be=0Athe biggest killer of migrant passerines in eastern Nort=
h America.  The strong or lucky=0A(?) Prairie Warblers that kept going on t=
he right angle found Atlantic=0ACanada. The Avalon Peninsula is 1500 km fro=
m Cape=0A Cod. When the Prairie=0AWarblers get here they look as spritey an=
d alive as you=92d expect=0Aanywhere. =0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AIt is not just =
Prairie Warblers.  Rare but regular fall southern warbler finds=0Aare Cerul=
ean, Golden-winged, Blue-winged, Kentucky, Hooded, Prothonotary and Worm-ea=
ting Warblers.  There is a host of other less exciting species=0Athat also =
are thought to come on the same SW expressway as the sought after=0Asouther=
n warblers.  Red-eyed Vireo=0Ais a very scarce breeder in Newfoundland yet =
is one of the commoner passerines in September and October on the=0Asouth e=
ast Avalon Peninsula with day counts of 20+ regular and once a record 75. I=
 consider=0Athese vagrants as I think they also came from the northeastern =
United States.  We talk of them as=0Aflavour birds. The number of Red-eyed =
Vireo present is often an indication of=0Ayour chances of finding a souther=
n warbler gem. Northern Oriole is another of the=0Amore numerous vagrants. =
 =0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AThe question remains why fall and not=0Aspring.  Pos=
sibly it is largely=0Ainexperienced young birds making the mistakes. When t=
he age of vagrant warblers=0Ais identifiable in the field they are nearly a=
lways immature birds.  The survival rate of birds making this=0Ahuge mistak=
e may be low. How many little Prairie Warblers can navigate 1500 km=0Aor mo=
re back to where they started from. =0AThe birds typically leave a day or s=
o after arrival though some decide to linger and=0Abecome trapped by poor w=
eather conditions and become November statistics. Prairie=0AWarbler is one =
of the more regular fatalistic November warblers in St. John=92s.=0A =0A=0A=
  =0A =0A=0AMore questions than answers.=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AOne more to t=
hrow out. Why does Newfoundland have 25 x more records of Lark Sparrow than=
 Vesper Sparrow? Vesper=0ASparrow is often common in the same areas that La=
rk Sparrows breed. And Vespers=0Aof course breed much farther east. =0AI gu=
ess it is like comparing Yellow Wagtails with Red-throated Pipits in=0ACali=
fornia. It is not really meaningful to make the comparison but it is=0Acuri=
ous why Lark Sparrows regularly end up 1000s of km east of where the=0Amajo=
rity of the species is. Can=92t be any benefit to the species or the indivi=
dual.=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0A=0A=0ABruce Mactavish=0A =0A=0ASt. John's, Newfo=
undland=0A =0A=0ACanada=0A =0A=0Abruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca=0A =0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0A  =0A =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A=0AFrom: NBHC ID-FRONTIER=
S Frontiers=0Aof Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=
] On Behalf Of David Muth=0A=0ASent: Thursday, January 11, 2007=0A12:23 AM=
=0A=0ATo: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=0A=0ASubject: Re: [BIRDWG01] On=0Av=
agrancy=0A=0A=0A  =0A =0A=0A=0A=0ASince our listowner seems to be indulging=
 this thread,=0AI=92ll throw in my two cents:=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0AFascinat=
ing subject, and a number of great emails to=0Aponder. We don=92t yet have =
the technology or investigative techniques=0Awe=92d need to root out all th=
e answers on vagrancy, but we can at least=0Aexamine our assumptions and be=
liefs.=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0A1)      Once=0Aa bird vagrates (forgive me for =
re-using someone else=92s useful but=0Ainelegant coinage), what it does for=
 the rest of its life is=0Airrelevant=97that can=92t elucidate the original=
 cause of vagrancy.=0A =0A=0A2)      A=0Abehavior or trait in an individual=
 organism, such as the tendency to vagrate,=0Acannot occur because it might=
 ultimately benefit a population. Evolution does=0Anot have a goal or purpo=
se. Populations don=92t have the capacity to sprinkle=0Avagrancy genes into=
 individuals because by pioneering new territories these=0Aindividuals migh=
t benefit the population. =0AVagrancy genes occur as the result of random m=
utations. They persist=0Aonly if they confer fitness on an individual and a=
n individual=92s=0Aoffspring. They might therefore by chance benefit a popu=
lation, but vagrancy=0Agenes are not maintained by populations for the bene=
fit of populations. They=0Aoccur at random.=0A =0A=0A3)      These=0Agenes =
are by definition abnormal, and therefore aberrant. Aberrant does not=0Amea=
n bad. Einstein was aberrant. Mozart was aberrant. Michael Jordan is=0Aaber=
rant.=0A =0A=0A4)      Some=0Avagrancy is caused by weather=97tubenoses ent=
rained in the eye of a=0Ahurricane for instance. McLaren=92s lucid descript=
ion of the patterns seen=0Aon Canadian islands and peninsulas, or in Icelan=
d =0Aor Ireland ,=0Aprovide ample evidence. Note however that (except in tr=
uly extreme weather like=0Ahurricanes), the weather effect only works as a =
complete explanation when=0Alandbirds find themselves over water and fly do=
wnwind until they reach land, or=0Awhen seabirds are caught over land and k=
eep going searching for water. This=0Aexplains much of the vagrancy seen in=
 the British Isles ,=0Aand naturally colors the European view of vagrancy. =
It might be the solution to=0Athe Red-throated Pipit/ Yellow Wagtail riddle=
. It also helps explain some of=0Athe more spectacular vagrants we see, suc=
h as the recent Lesser Frigatebirds=0Afrom Michigan and Wyoming ,=0Abut onl=
y so far.=0A =0A=0A5)      Examination=0Aof wind patterns or hurricanes can=
 help us explain why they might have kept=0Amoving over land until hopeless=
ly far inland, but not why they were in the=0Awrong hemisphere in the first=
 place. A hurricane may have put a Lesser=0AFrigatebird over the continenta=
l U.S. ,=0Abut it did not snatch one out of the South Atlantic =0Aor tropic=
al Pacific.=0A =0A=0A6)      Except=0Ain those cases of figurative fishes o=
ut of water, weather patterns seem=0Aunlikely to explain vagrancy.  Birds=
=0Aare not blown about willy-nilly by the winds. Carolina Chickadees don=92=
t=0Ashow up in Chicago =0Aevery time the wind howls from the south. Winds m=
ay facilitate vagrants, but=0Athey don=92t cause all vagrancy. A landbird c=
aught up in winds blowing it=0Acontrary to its intended direction always ha=
s an option when over land=97it=0Acan land. So too a seabird over the sea. =
(Which is why, of course,=0Afrigatebirds, which can=92t alight in the sea, =
are the single most common=0Ahurricane vagrant marine bird. Strong flyers, =
most are not entrained, but ride=0Athe outlying gale bands of a storm, gett=
ing carried far inland as they circle=0Athe moving system.)=0A =0A=0A7)    =
  When=0ACave Swallows began showing up in the upper Midwest =0Aand on the =
Atlantic coast much was made of continental weather patterns. But=0Athe win=
d patterns may have explained the mechanism the swallows used to go=0Awhere=
 they intended to go, but it is contrary to all evidence to suggest that=0A=
for the first time in birder recorded history Cave Swallows in Texas were s=
wept=0Aup into southwest winds and carried to Michigan, as if the wind had =
never blown=0Afrom the southwest before. =0A =0A=0A8)      Those=0Aswallows=
 may have used those winds, but something intrinsic in those individual=0As=
wallows changed. In a brief span of time, a bunch of Cave Swallows came alo=
ng=0Aintent on following a new migration route and used a common weather ph=
enomenon=0Ato forge new migration routes. The change had to be genetic and =
it might have=0Aspread rapidly as a secondary characteristic of a particula=
rly robust and=0Afitness-conferring mutation, or the new migration trait it=
self might have been=0Aa recurring mutation that conferred fitness suddenly=
 in the face of changing=0Aenvironmental circumstances. Of course, a rapidl=
y expanding population of Cave=0ASwallows may have amplified a theretofore =
hidden phenomenon, but I seriously=0Adoubt that the occasional but regular =
Cave Swallow was slipping past East Coast=0Aobservers at places like Cape M=
ay during a=0Aseason when a Cliff Swallow would have attracted considerable=
 attention. This=0Awas not a case of a cryptic species going by under the r=
adar. Something=0Afundamental changed, and it was not the direction of the =
wind in Texas .=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0ABut enough.=0A =0A=0A  =0A =0A=0ADavid=
 Muth=0A =0A=0ANew Orleans=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AJoin or Leave BIRD=
WG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01=0A=0A=0AArch=
ives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AJoin=
 or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg0=
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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Alex Lees <lincslister(AT)YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 6:46am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi all
   
  Ian's paper: McLaren et al. (2006) Origins and characteristics of Nearctic
landbirds in
Britain and Ireland in autumn: a statistical analysis. Ibis 148: 707-728. can be
 accessed here: http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/publications.htm
   
  James Gilroy and I also examined the vagrancy/colonisation paradigm in a paper
 in British Birds: Gilroy, J.G. & Lees, A.C.  2003. Vagrancy theories: are
autumn vagrants really reverse migrants? British Birds, 96: 427 � 438 this can
also be downloaded from the link above (note file is large and may take a while
[and may crash the site..]).
   
  cheers
   
  Alex 

"Ian A. McLaren" <I.A.McLaren(AT)DAL.CA> wrote:
  All:

I've been perhaps overly fascinated in "vagrancy" (and I still like the term)
over the years, and have written (with others) three itenms that address the
roles of wrong-headedness vs. wind displacement with some focus on the East
Coast and Nova Scotia. These are:

McLaren (1981) The incidence of vagrant landbirds on Nova Scotian islands.
(open access)

McLaren et al. (2000) A notable autumn arrival of reverse migrants in southern
Nova Scotia. N. Am. Birds 54: 4-10

McLaren et al. (1986) Origins and characteristics of Nearctic landbirds in
Britain and Ireland in autumn: a statistical analysis. Ibis 148: 707-728.

From these and the work of others it can surely be concluded that both
misorientation and wind patterns play a role in vagrancy.

1. Wrong-headedness is manifest in "mirror-image" misorientation, as first
invoked by De Sante (PhD dissertation 1973, et seq.) to explain the autumn
flurry of eastern Boreal Wood Warblers in California; they should be heading
SE, and instead head SW. (Choosing a "mirror image" angle occurs in rats in
experimental settings and often enough in humans, it seems.) I found (McLaren
1981)that displaced western warblers (BTGR, HEWA, TOWA, "Audubons") in spring,
were mapped as a scattering across the continent in a NE direction, at a
statistically demonstrable average mirror angle of their "intended" NW route up
the mountains or coast. I've confirmed this pattern over the years to my own
satisfaction with the addition of more data points. This vagrancy is unlikely
attributable to wind, although of course in general SW airflow does predominate
across the continent in spring.

Surely, also, the quite frequent wandering of S. Am. species to North America
bespeaks either substantial "overshooting" of their intended destinations in
austral spring, or true "reverse migration" in austral autumn. In either case,
winds can't be invoked. although it may influence the final destinations (more
in Nova Scotia than in any northly state or province, I believe - see below for
wind effects).

2. Displacement by winds can be of two kinds, I think. There is only occasional
entrainment within cyclonic systems. A striking example was Hurricane Wilma in
2005 which carried huge numbers of seabirds, swallows, YBCU and CHSW in its
extensive eye rapidly NE from Caribbean/Florida, and they "bailed out" mostly
on the nearest land in Nova Scotia. (Interestingly, the landfall patterns
suggested that the night-migrant YBCU bailed out first, and the day-migrant [?]
swifts not until daylight.)

Then there is downwind displacement in strong geostrophic airflow. This seems
to be part of the explanation for the pattern of arrival of "southern" vagrants
in the NE in earlier fall when the airflow is predominantly SW, and the later
appearance of "western" vagrants when zonal flow develops across the continent.
A striking example of downwind displacement occurred in early Oct. 1998
(McLaren et al. 2000) when large numbers of "southern" migrants and
out-of-season migrants were dumped along a short section of coast in southern
Nova Scotia. Statistical and weather analyses concluded that they had overshot
a cold front moving rapidly of SE USA (Offshore migation there normally makes
adaptive sense, for the usual anticyclonic wind pattern on route would bring
them more rapidly to Central and South America than would a direct flight.)
However, those that overshot got caught up in very strong SW airflow beyond the
cold front off the East Coast, and were later hurled ashore in Nova Scotia by
strong easterly winds ahead of a rapidly deepening low in the Gulf of Maine.

However, such downwind displacement is probably amplified by a tendency for
downwind flight by birds that find themselves displaced over the Atlantic or in
other unappealing circumstances. (This was first demonstrated for the NE in
neat radar studies by Richardson, 1972, N. Am. Birds 26: 10-17). Others have
suggested an obvious adaptive value to this: if you're unhappy with your
situation, the quickest way out of it is downwind. This might be true in
general but, of course, it sometimes goes wrong.

The most spectacular cases of downwind flight going wrong may be shown in the
pattern of vagrancy of N. Am. landbirds to UK and Ireland, and presumably to
mainland W. Europe as well. A statistical analysis of this pattern (McLaren et
al. 2006) concluded that the birds that did so were most often long-distance
migrants displaced offshore in October in SE USA (as in the above example, and
not, i.e., westward from from more northerly latitudes).

All this applies to vagrancy in E. N. Am. - there may be complications in W.
Europe, where there is an ongoing argument about the roles of misorientation,
winds, and random wandering in bringing birds from Siberia and the Orient.

That's probably more than I really know about the subject.

Cheers, Ian M.

Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1

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***********************************************************************

Alexander C. Lees
PhD Student
Centre for Ecology, Evolution and Conservation
School of Environmental Sciences
University of East Anglia
NORWICH  NR4 7TJ
United Kingdom

Phone: +44 1603 591426 Fax: +44 1603 591327

http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/index.htm

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: Shaibal Mitra <mitra(AT)mail.csi.cuny.edu>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 8:13am

I appreciate David Muth�s refutation of the popular but ill-conceived group 
selection interpretation of vagrancy. He is correct that, except under very
restricted
circumstances, natural selection does not favor traits that are disadvantageous
to
the individuals expressing them just because the traits might be favorable to
the
population as a whole. But David, like many others who have contributed to this
thread, seems to oversimplify the genetic basis of vagrancy. It is important to
remember, as Alvaro pointed out a while back, that phenotypic variation (e.g., 
variation among individuals in their tendency to vagrate) is influenced by both
genetic and environmental factors--and by interactions among these.

The expression of complex behavioral traits, such as dispersal behavior in
highly
vagile animals like birds, is especially likely to be governed by complex
genetic-
environmental interactions called norms of reaction. To use a familiar North 
American example, House Finches sharing a particular genotype might show one 
distribution of dispersal distances from their natal sites if the population
density is
x, but a radically different distribution of dispersal distances if they
experience a
population density of 2x. This must not be confused with actual genetic
variation
underlying variation in dispersal tendency. In this example, there are likely to
 be
other genetic variants exhibiting distinct norms of reaction--for instance a
more
(or less) abrupt shift in median dispersal distance as a function of population
density (or some other environmental variable) compared to the first genotype. 

Norms of reaction are absolutely expected to evolve under natural selection.
Some
genotypes will produce superior facultative responses under prevailing regimes
of
environmental variation than will other genotypes, and the superior genotypes
will
increase in frequency. In our example, the optimal genotype might be expressed 
as vagrancy by some individuals whose prospects would have been dismal under 
the particular circumstances they were experiencing. Supposing a few of these 
birds pioneered a great new breeding site and flourished there, their many 
descendents would inherit the genotype coding for this particular norm of 
reaction--not for outlandish vagrancy per se.  

Best,
Shai Mitra
Bay Shore, NY

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: David Muth <dpmuth(AT)COX.NET>
Reply-To: David Muth <dpmuth(AT)COX.NET>
Date:          Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:52:37 -0600

>Since our listowner seems to be indulging this thread, I'll throw in my two
cents:
>
> 
>
>Fascinating subject, and a number of great emails to ponder. We don't yet have
the technology or investigative techniques we'd need to root out all the answers
 on
vagrancy, but we can at least examine our assumptions and beliefs.
>
> 
>
>1)      Once a bird vagrates (forgive me for re-using someone else's useful but
inelegant coinage), what it does for the rest of its life is irrelevant-that
can't
elucidate the original cause of vagrancy.
>
>2)      A behavior or trait in an individual organism, such as the tendency to
vagrate, cannot occur because it might ultimately benefit a population.
Evolution
does not have a goal or purpose. Populations don't have the capacity to sprinkle
vagrancy genes into individuals because by pioneering new territories these 
individuals might benefit the population.  Vagrancy genes occur as the result of
random mutations. They persist only if they confer fitness on an individual and
an
individual's offspring. They might therefore by chance benefit a population, but
vagrancy genes are not maintained by populations for the benefit of populations.
They occur at random.
>
>3)      These genes are by definition abnormal, and therefore aberrant.
Aberrant
does not mean bad. Einstein was aberrant. Mozart was aberrant. Michael Jordan is
aberrant.
>
>4)      Some vagrancy is caused by weather-tubenoses entrained in the eye of a
hurricane for instance. McLaren's lucid description of the patterns seen on 
Canadian islands and peninsulas, or in Iceland or Ireland, provide ample
evidence.
Note however that (except in truly extreme weather like hurricanes), the weather
effect only works as a complete explanation when landbirds find themselves over
water and fly downwind until they reach land, or when seabirds are caught over 
land and keep going searching for water. This explains much of the vagrancy seen
in the British Isles, and naturally colors the European view of vagrancy. It
might be
the solution to the Red-throated Pipit/ Yellow Wagtail riddle. It also helps
explain
some of the more spectacular vagrants we see, such as the recent Lesser 
Frigatebirds from Michigan and Wyoming, but only so far.
>
>5)      Examination of wind patterns or hurricanes can help us explain why they
might have kept moving over land until hopelessly far inland, but not why they 
were in the wrong hemisphere in the first place. A hurricane may have put a
Lesser
Frigatebird over the continental U.S., but it did not snatch one out of the
South
Atlantic or tropical Pacific.
>
>6)      Except in those cases of figurative fishes out of water, weather
patterns
seem unlikely to explain vagrancy.  Birds are not blown about willy-nilly by the
winds. Carolina Chickadees don't show up in Chicago every time the wind howls 
from the south. Winds may facilitate vagrants, but they don't cause all
vagrancy. A
landbird caught up in winds blowing it contrary to its intended direction always
has an option when over land-it can land. So too a seabird over the sea. (Which
is
why, of course, frigatebirds, which can't alight in the sea, are the single most
common hurricane vagrant marine bird. Strong flyers, most are not entrained, but
ride the outlying gale bands of a storm, getting carried far inland as they
circle the
moving system.)
>
>7)      When Cave Swallows began showing up in the upper Midwest and on the 
Atlantic coast much was made of continental weather patterns. But the wind 
patterns may have explained the mechanism the swallows used to go where they 
intended to go, but it is contrary to all evidence to suggest that for the first
 time in
birder recorded history Cave Swallows in Texas were swept up into southwest 
winds and carried to Michigan, as if the wind had never blown from the southwest
before. 
>
>8)      Those swallows may have used those winds, but something intrinsic in 
those individual swallows changed. In a brief span of time, a bunch of Cave 
Swallows came along intent on following a new migration route and used a 
common weather phenomenon to forge new migration routes. The change had to 
be genetic and it might have spread rapidly as a secondary characteristic of a 
particularly robust and fitness-conferring mutation, or the new migration trait
itself might have been a recurring mutation that conferred fitness suddenly in
the
face of changing environmental circumstances. Of course, a rapidly expanding 
population of Cave Swallows may have amplified a theretofore hidden 
phenomenon, but I seriously doubt that the occasional but regular Cave Swallow 
was slipping past East Coast observers at places like Cape May during a season 
when a Cliff Swallow would have attracted considerable attention. This was not a
case of a cryptic species going by under the radar. Something fundamental 
changed, and it was not the direction of the wind in Texas.
>
> 
>
>But enough.
>
> 
>
>David Muth
>
>New Orleans
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?
SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
 

________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 10:16am

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  Very interesting hypothetheses Laurent. I prefer to stick to what can be seen
in nature which is that passerines fly up at dusk and take the first tail-wind
they come across and often during September at the height of Blackcap migration
that wind comes from SE and hence those birds that fly with it end up in Britain
 but also in Norway and no doubt in the Atlantic as well similar to what Bruce
thinks happens off the US east coast. It is of course possible that over time
wind directions have changed resulting in more individuals of certain species
showing up more frequently at places where they seldom occurred before. Asian
species are seen more frequently in Western Europe than before and this may be
due to changed prevailing tail-winds. At the same time however the number of
birdwatchers increased dramatically as did their mobility and knowledge.
  Norman

  Laurent Raty advised: >I think you should (re)read :

  Helbig A.J. (1991) : Inheritance of migratory direction in a bird species: a
    cross-breeding experiment with SE- and SW-migrating blackcaps (Sylvia
    atricapilla). Behav. Ecol. Sociobiol. 28 : 9 - 12.

  Bearhop S., Fiedler W., Furness R.W., Votier S.C., Waldron S., Newton J.,
    Bowen G.J., Berthold P., Farnsworth K. (2005) : Assortative mating as a
    mechanism for rapid evolution of a migratory divide. Science 310 : 502 -
    504.

  The migratory direction of Blackcaps seems clearly genetically determined,
  and heritable - birds issued from crossings between parents taking different
  directions tend to follow a direction intermediate between that taken by the
  parents.
  A significant proportion of the Central European populations of Blackcaps
  now migrates NW, to winter in Britain and Ireland, and this doesn't seem to
  be related to the weather in any way. Instead, these birds appear to form a
  distinct sub-population. They return to their breeding grounds earlier than
  those that take the classical SW direction, and tend to pair assortatively
  due to their breeding being temporally segregated from the breeding of the
  rest of the population. They have a better reproductive success, possibly
  because their earlier return allows them to choose the best territories,
  and this trait currently seems to be under strong positive selective
  pressure.<

  Norman wrote:> Many Blackcaps Sylvia atricapilla fly NW during September from
the Low
  > countries whereas we expect them to fly SW if they originate from west of
  > 15 degrees East or SE it they originate from east of that longitude on the
  > basis of recoveries of ringed birds. What's wrong with these Blackcaps?
  > Damaged genes? Are they, as has been suggested lured by British bird
  > tables? Nothing of the sort, during September SE winds frequently prevail,
  > when the Blackcaps begin their journey at night they fly up in circles
  > until they are being picked up by the SE tailwind and make the most of it
  > as was shown by an individual I ringed near The Hague in The Netherlands
  > and which was found on Shetland the next day, a 20 gram bird which covered
  > a distance of 1,000 km's aided by a strong tailwind!

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Subject: Re: On vagrancy
From: David Muth <dpmuth(AT)COX.NET>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 10:26am

Thanks to Shaibal Mitra for his corrections, clarifications, and elucidations. I
 knew I was wading into deeper waters than my diminutive scientific stature
could handle when I started writing about genes and evolution. I also had every
reason to believe someone on this list would pull me out.

From my standpoint on the northern Gulf Coast weather has always seemed a
particularly unsatisfactory explanation for most observed vagrancy. When you
live in a place where the weather is confusing, with continental and
sub-tropical oceanic weather systems constantly tangling with each other, the
morning after a vagrant discovery offers you a number of possible ex post facto
explanatory scenarios--all of them equally unlikely, in most cases. When on the
same day and in the same place (to choose one dramatic example) you see a
southward displaced Long-tailed Duck, a couple of westward displaced Cape May
Warblers, and displaced from who knows where to the west or southwest Red-faced
Warbler, as many of us did in Cameron, Louisiana in April 1990, analysis of
“yesterday's” weather seems wholly inadequate. I know that doesn’t prove
that weather did not play a role, but it may explain my tendency to embrace
deeper genetic explanations.

Among the most productive sources of vagrants for Louisiana are the subtropical
lowlands of south Texas and northeast Mexico. Some species, once considered
vagrants are now so routine as late fall wanderers, over-winterers or, indeed,
established populations that the term vagrant no longer applies—Black-bellied
Whistling Ducks, White-tailed Kites, Vermillion Flycatchers (possibly from
there), White-winged and Inca doves (presumably from there), Groove-billed Anis
(though winter numbers much reduced in recent years), Buff-bellied Hummingbirds,
 and Bronzed Cowbirds. The ducks, kites, both doves and cowbirds have
established permanent breeding populations in the last two decades.

The list of fall vagrants includes Masked Duck, Least Grebe, Harris’ Hawk
(pos. from there), White-tailed Hawk, Zone-tailed Hawk (pos), Crested Caracara
(the small persistent disjunct breeding colony in Louisiana is an unlikely
source for the spate of recent records), Ringed Kingfisher, “cooperi”
Brown-crested Flycatcher, Couch’s Kingbird, Great Kiskadee, Tropical Parula
and Blue Bunting. (I don’t include here species that are spring overshoots
from the same region.) On Dec. 23 during the New Orleans CBC another species
presumably from this region, Mangrove Cuckoo, was added to the list.

Most of these species are “resident” or only partially migratory in the
Tamaulipan lowlands. None would qualify as long distance migrants, though the
northernmost populations, especially of Brown-crested Flycatcher and Tropical
Parula, move southward coastwise in late fall. They seem to show a pattern like
mirror image displacement—most go south or southeast coastwise, but some go
north or northeast, usually hugging the coast, often piling up in the peninsular
 delta below New Orleans. (Or did they fly across the gulf? Observations on
offshore oil and gas production platforms reveals the utterly unsuspected fact
that White-winged Doves routinely cross the gulf, and are among the most common
platform hoppers out there.)

But are we really seeing mirror-image migration with a source in genetic
aberrancy? Who knows? We may instead be seeing Mitra’s “norms of reaction”
 to population dynamics or weather patterns (but not wind direction; please not
wind direction), or a combination of factors. Clearly whatever factors
influenced these movements opened up a whole new area of breeding habitat for
some populations of these species, at least in the short term.

But I can imagine no weather only-explanation that explains that magnificent
Mangrove Cuckoo that brightened an otherwise bleak Katrina-bombed woodlot for
two days last month.

David Muth
New Orleans

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Subject: Dowitcher in Britain
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 10:54am

I just got an alert from Birdguides that pointed to a presumed Short-billed 
Dowitcher in Britain, at 
http://www.birdguides.com/birdnews/pictures.asp?t=376810.  A quick look 
made me think Long-billed, based one round body shape and bill 
length.  Anyone else care to comment?

Kevin

*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/

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Subject: Re: Dowitcher in IRELAND
From: Killian Mullarney <kmullarney(AT)EIRCOM.NET>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 1:01pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Kevin's spontaneous assessment of this bird based on Gerry O' Neill's =
video-grabs (see  =
http://www.birdguides.com/birdnews/pictures.asp?t=3D376810) is very =
welcome, as there has not yet been any public debate on the =
identification in Ireland (Dundalk, incidentally, is on the east coast =
of Ireland, not in Britain).

I have not heard the reasons why this bird is considered probably a =
Short-billed and I am unsure if this tentative identification is =
proposed by observers who have seen the bird or if others have offered =
this opinion based on the photographs and verbal accounts. Either way, I =
don't think anyone involved would be inclined to "presume" anything when =
it comes to identifying a distant winter-plumaged Short-billed Dowitcher =
in Europe, where Short-billed is very much rarer than Long-billed.=20

I received slightly clearer versions of Gerry's shots last night (which =
I'm sure Gerry wouldn't object to me forwarding to anyone on this list =
who'd like to receive them) but I cannot discern anything to make me =
think it looks more like a Short-billed than a Long-billed; indeed, =
several features, if they can be determined reliably from these images, =
point to it being a Long-billed. It appears to have more =
Long-billed-like diffusely darkish centres to the brownish scapulars and =
in most shots it looks decidedly round-backed. I'm not sure how reliable =
an indicator of Long-billed this round-backed look is, but in marginal =
quality images of this kind I am wary of judging the subtle plumage =
differences that help differentiate between the two dowitchers in =
basic/winter plumage.

There is a good chance this bird (discovered only a couple of days ago) =
will linger and that when the strong winds die down it will become =
easier to view, and maybe even to hear a call. In the meantime, it would =
be good to hear the opinions of others on this list who take an interest =
in dowitcher identification.=20

Regards,

Killian Mullarney

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Kevin McGowan=20
  To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
  Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:54 PM
  Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher in Britain

  I just got an alert from Birdguides that pointed to a presumed =
Short-billed=20
  Dowitcher in Britain, at=20
  http://www.birdguides.com/birdnews/pictures.asp?t=3D376810.  A quick =
look=20
  made me think Long-billed, based one round body shape and bill=20
  length.  Anyone else care to comment?

  Kevin

  *****************************************************
  Kevin J. McGowan
  Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
  Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
  159 Sapsucker Woods Road
  Ithaca, NY 14850
  607/254-2432
  fax 607/254-2111
  kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
  http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/

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Subject: On Broad-billed Hummingbird Vagrancy
From: David Muth <dpmuth(AT)COX.NET>
Date: 11 Jan 2007 6:27pm

While Russell sleeps, or birds, or merely indulges this off-topic thread, I 
can't help but bring up one of the wierdest recent examples of a vagrancy 
pattern guaranteed to confound anyone smug enough to think we understand 
anything.

Louisiana has about 20 records (I'm guessing) of Broad-billed Hummingbirds, 
all in the last twenty years and all at hummingbird gardens, specifically 
maintained by a coterie of lunatics (like me) who want to attract wintering 
hummngbird vagrants. Most of these hummingbird gardens are carefully 
monitored by a small lunatic fringe of hummingbird banders (among whom I 
count many friends, I hasten to add).

If you read the latest North American Birds, you know that Colorado has 
three records of BBHU. Two of those birds were captured by hummingbird 
banders in Colo (the disorder is widespread), and both, caught in separate 
years at separate locations, had already been banded in Louisiana. Now I put 
nothing past some of my friends. Maybe they drove to Colorado, feeding caged 
BBHU along the way.

But otherwise...

This extraordinary recapture rate and bizarre coincidence tells a lot. It 
tells us about the efficacy of hummingbird oases in winnowing stray 
hummingbirds from the surrpounding biosphere. But it also tells us, it has 
to tell us, that this vagrancy had a deep underlying genetic cause, 
indepenent of weather. Because there is clearly a genetic abnormality that 
not only sends Broad-billed Hummingbirds east or northeast to Louisiana 
rather than south or southwest to Pacific Mexico, it then sends them on the 
spring return flight hundreds of miles too far north to Colorado.

When it happened once I was willing to believe that it was a once in 
million statistical fluke. But twice? Twice tells us this is no fluke. It is 
the inevitable consequence of a genetic abnormality that recurs in the 
population at large--not a one-time mutation, unless bird "b" was a 
descendant or sibling of bird "a". And if you think that only two 
Broad-billed Hummingbirds have ever wintered in Louisiana and taken a spring 
detour through Colorado, and both have been caught twice by banders hundreds 
of miles apart, then I'd like you to sign up for a lottery I'm sponsoring. 
(All in a good cause--I'm hoping to retire.)

David Muth
New Orleans

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Subject: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: rsheil <rsheil(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 11:02am

    I am seeking opinions on the subspecific identity of a recent Common
Gull (Larus canus) that was discovered in Gloucester, Massachusetts on 2
January 2007 by a group of visiting birders from Michigan (Erik Enbody et.
al.).  The bird was seen off and on for only a few days and I was able to
view it on 3 Jan.  My own opinion is that this bird shows characters most
consistent with Kamchatka Gull (L.c.kamtschatschensis), rather than European
Common Gull (L.c.canus), to which almost all of the several dozens of prior
Massachusetts records refer.  However, I'm less sure it can be separated
from canus with certainty and therefore seek comments from others.

   Photos can be viewed at:

http://www.pavlikphotography.com/mew_gull.htm

http://www.nebirdsplus.org/Mew_Gull_Jodrey_Fish_Pier.htm

http://albums.photoshow.net/Show?id=890233-hhvvonkq  (top and bottom of
page)

    Structurally the bird was big, appearing bulkier, heavier, possibly
longer winged, and with notably thicker tarsi and bigger feet (dangling
while foraging) than all of the adjacent Ring-billed Gulls.  The head and
bill also appeared big for a canus, the bill was long and almost unmarked
save for a small very pale dusky smudge near the gonys.  Compared to canus
the bird seemed to show a more sloping forehead and flatter crown.  This
combined with the big (long) headed and long-billed structure and dark
around the eye imparted a somewhat more imposing and fiercer look than the
usually gentler expression of canus.  The upperwing and mantle were dark
(although some of the photos are overexposed and don't show this, others
do), darker than I have ever seen on L.c.canus.  The primary pattern looks
acceptable for either canus or kam, with extensive black on P8, which fact
along with overall size and structure and bill size would seem to eliminate
western U.S. brachyrhynchos.  There was heavy brownish streaks and mottling
on the nape which extended to form a distinct broad necklace or band
completely across the chest.  There was also dark mottling immediately
behind the eye, but finer streaks on the ear coverts.  The eye was not
solidly dark as it appeared in the field, but had a paler amber colored iris
as revealed in several photographs.  The feet and tarsi appeared yellow.

   This bird structurally and by plumage very closely resembles the East
Providence, Rhode Island bird of almost exactly one year ago (with the
exception that that bird showed a small amount of black on P4), also thought
by many (including me) to be a good candidate for kamtschatschensis.

Thanks for any comments.

Richard Heil
S. Peabody, MA
rsheil(AT)juno.com

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Subject: canus canus or...Kam or...heinei???
From: "James H. Barton" <redwingatfp1986(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 12:22pm

    Hello.  I have previously offered a piece of evidence on Massbird
supporting the ID of Kam, namely that in one photo the bird shows an
interesting pattern in P9 and P10 identifical to that which appears on a
photo of a bird called a second-year Kam which I took from (I believe)
a Korean website a few years  ago.  I offered on Massbird to share the
photo with anyone who requested  that I send it.  No one replied.

    The feature in question appears on P10 and consists of a small white
apical spot adjacent to but separate from a large white mirror.  The spot
is isolated.  It's separate from the mirror on P10 and the mirror on p9.

    The putative Kam presents a dark eye.  From what I read, I would have
epxected a yellow eye on an adult.  Indeed, one website says that adults
"invariably"  present pale eyes.  On the other had, from other research,
I doubt that absolute statement holds

    On researching the putative Kam I realized just yesterday that I had not
considered the possibility of "Russian Common Gull" >> (heinei).  It's my
understanding that heinei adults are much more likely to present a dark eye
than Kam adults.

    But now comes the problem of separating Kam from heinei.  In that regard
I very highly recommend the lengthy, detailed discussion of this problem 
appearing
on BirdsKorea at www.birdskorea.org/commongulls2004.asp under the title
"Far East Asian Common  Gulls."  (To find the article on the site, you can 
search
on "heinei".

    The writer, who has very extensive experience with heinei and Kam, 
describes
widespread variation in the two subspecies and expresses strong doubts that 
even
he and other Far East Asian observers know enough to separate the subspecies
reliably.

    After reading the text, you might want to look and the very last photo 
in the article,
which shows a putative third winter or adult Kam with a dark eye, and (look
closely) the small apical spot on P10 referred to above.

    So, could someone comment on expected eye color in adult heinei and Kam, 
and,
on the significance (if any) of the small ancillary apical spot on P10?

And also (see BirdsKorea) on the problems of ID?

    Yours,

Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA

U.S. Coordinator, Proact
defending birds and their habitats
before it's too late
www.proact-campaigns.net

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Subject: Re: Dowitcher in IRELAND
From: Paul & Andrea Kelly <paulandreakelly(AT)EIRCOM.NET>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 1:12pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi all,

 

The Dowitcher in question is of course as already suggested Long-billed, I
obtained some poor but more informative images today of the bird and they
can be seen on irishbirdimages.com <http://www.irishbirdimages.com/> 

 

Regards.

 

Paul.

 

  _____  

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Killian Mullarney
Sent: 11 January 2007 20:01
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher in IRELAND

 

Kevin's spontaneous assessment of this bird based on Gerry O' Neill's
video-grabs (see
<http://www.birdguides.com/birdnews/pictures.asp?t=376810>
http://www.birdguides.com/birdnews/pictures.asp?t=376810) is very welcome,
as there has not yet been any public debate on the identification in Ireland
(Dundalk, incidentally, is on the east coast of Ireland, not in Britain).

 

I have not heard the reasons why this bird is considered probably a
Short-billed and I am unsure if this tentative identification is proposed by
observers who have seen the bird or if others have offered this opinion
based on the photographs and verbal accounts. Either way, I don't think
anyone involved would be inclined to "presume" anything when it comes to
identifying a distant winter-plumaged Short-billed Dowitcher in Europe,
where Short-billed is very much rarer than Long-billed. 

 

I received slightly clearer versions of Gerry's shots last night (which I'm
sure Gerry wouldn't object to me forwarding to anyone on this list who'd
like to receive them) but I cannot discern anything to make me think it
looks more like a Short-billed than a Long-billed; indeed, several features,
if they can be determined reliably from these images, point to it being a
Long-billed. It appears to have more Long-billed-like diffusely darkish
centres to the brownish scapulars and in most shots it looks decidedly
round-backed. I'm not sure how reliable an indicator of Long-billed this
round-backed look is, but in marginal quality images of this kind I am wary
of judging the subtle plumage differences that help differentiate between
the two dowitchers in basic/winter plumage.

 

There is a good chance this bird (discovered only a couple of days ago) will
linger and that when the strong winds die down it will become easier to
view, and maybe even to hear a call. In the meantime, it would be good to
hear the opinions of others on this list who take an interest in dowitcher
identification. 

 

Regards,

 

Killian Mullarney

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Kevin McGowan <mailto:kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>  

To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:54 PM

Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher in Britain

 

I just got an alert from Birdguides that pointed to a presumed Short-billed 
Dowitcher in Britain, at 
http://www.birdguides.com/birdnews/pictures.asp?t=376810.  A quick look 
made me think Long-billed, based one round body shape and bill 
length.  Anyone else care to comment?

Kevin

*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/

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Subject: Re: canus canus or...Kam or...heinei???
From: "James P. Smith" <keenbirder(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 1:35pm

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi Jim,

Your wrote; "I have previously offered a piece of evidence on Massbird
supporting the ID of Kam, namely that in one photo the bird shows an
interesting pattern in P9 and P10 identifical to that which appears on a
photo of a bird called a second-year Kam which I took from (I believe)
a Korean website a few years  ago.  I offered on Massbird to share the
photo with anyone who requested  that I send it.  No one replied".

If the image that you offered to share was of a second-year bird, would there be
 any real value in comparing it to the Gloucester bird? Although Rick didn't
mention it in his post, the Gloucester bird does appear from the images to be an
 adult.

Best,

James P. Smith
Amherst, MA.

"James H. Barton" <redwingatfp1986(AT)COMCAST.NET> wrote:     Hello.  I have
previously offered a piece of evidence on Massbird
supporting the ID of Kam, namely that in one photo the bird shows an
interesting pattern in P9 and P10 identifical to that which appears on a
photo of a bird called a second-year Kam which I took from (I believe)
a Korean website a few years  ago.  I offered on Massbird to share the
photo with anyone who requested  that I send it.  No one replied.

    The feature in question appears on P10 and consists of a small white
apical spot adjacent to but separate from a large white mirror.  The spot
is isolated.  It's separate from the mirror on P10 and the mirror on p9.

    The putative Kam presents a dark eye.  From what I read, I would have
epxected a yellow eye on an adult.  Indeed, one website says that adults
"invariably"  present pale eyes.  On the other had, from other research,
I doubt that absolute statement holds

    On researching the putative Kam I realized just yesterday that I had not
considered the possibility of "Russian Common Gull" >> (heinei).  It's my
understanding that heinei adults are much more likely to present a dark eye
than Kam adults.

    But now comes the problem of separating Kam from heinei.  In that regard
I very highly recommend the lengthy, detailed discussion of this problem 
appearing
on BirdsKorea at www.birdskorea.org/commongulls2004.asp under the title
"Far East Asian Common  Gulls."  (To find the article on the site, you can 
search
on "heinei".

    The writer, who has very extensive experience with heinei and Kam, 
describes
widespread variation in the two subspecies and expresses strong doubts that 
even
he and other Far East Asian observers know enough to separate the subspecies
reliably.

    After reading the text, you might want to look and the very last photo 
in the article,
which shows a putative third winter or adult Kam with a dark eye, and (look
closely) the small apical spot on P10 referred to above.

    So, could someone comment on expected eye color in adult heinei and Kam, 
and,
on the significance (if any) of the small ancillary apical spot on P10?

And also (see BirdsKorea) on the problems of ID?

    Yours,

Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA

U.S. Coordinator, Proact
defending birds and their habitats
before it's too late
www.proact-campaigns.net

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Subject: Re: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 1:40pm

Yeeah..a post on a non-large gull!!! 

I can agree with Rick's synopsis of the features being
suggestive of an east asian (kamkamtschatschensis)
"Common" Gull rather than nominate canus. I agree that
the bird is very close in appearance (at least from
photos) to the individual that was present last winter
in RI.
Since my curiosity about how a Kam. Gull might appear
in the field was piqued, I spent many hours looking
for this individual, and the recent Mass bird. I
dipped on both birds, so my thoughts here are not
based on field views of either bird.

 Both the 05 RI bird and the 07 Mass individual differ
from the 'typical', 'doe-eyed', smallish-billed canus
that I grew up with in the UK.
Whatever their identity, I believe that they are
probably of the same subspecies. I have seen Kam. in
China and Alaska, but those experiences were brief and
are hardly of any value in assessing these birds.
Heinei I have never knowingly seen, and while there
are several putative sight records from the UK, I
don't believe it's a bird that can be "done" at the
limits of their range. I think, and I may be wrong,
that there are two records of ringed (and therefore
known) 'heinei' that were   found dead in the UK. If I
remembered that correctly, then at least it's known
that this race occurrs in western Europe. I apologize
for not having specific references for that thought.
A recent canus-type in Eastern Scotland, found by
Stuart Green in December 2006, had obvious pale eyes -
is this a character of east asian (henei) Common
Gulls, or does the variation in nominate canus include
birds that can show pale irises??
Also, could these individuals in Eastern North America
be heinei from the eastern part of the cline?? I don't
know how these races could be separated in the field
and photos of birds from Asian may give us a better
feel for how similar these two races are.

 At the time of the Rhode Island occurence, reference
to the current literature revealed a lack of
definitive and solid characters for separating Kam.
from other canus-types, and given a lone bird, out of
range, only seemed to compound the matter. 
With a cline in appearance across the range of
canus-henei-kam. it seemed almost fruitless to try and
prove sub-specific identity beyond "presumably"  or
"showing characters of".

If these are Kam., what route are they taking to get
here?
Does the increasing occurrence of Slaty-backed Gulls
in eastern North America throw any light on these
birds - is it anything more than a hint  that it's
feasible for Asian gulls to get here?

My view here is unfortunately one of pessimism - I
agree that the two individuals, on jizz, head markings
and overall bulk, hint at an eastern origin, but I'm
not sure, and I think Rick would probably agree with
me, that we can't go much beyond that on current
knowledge.

Or, maybe I'm just bitter 'cos I missed both birds.. 
:)

Julian Hough,
CT, USA

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Subject: canus canus or...Kam or...heinei - why consider
         2nd-year?
From: "James H. Barton" <redwingatfp1986(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 3:47pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

    Jim-- You wonder why I offer to share photos of a 2nd-year Kam when =
the MA bird appears to be an adult.  I offer because the MA bird closely =
resembles a bird labelled as a 2nd-year in the photos I offer to share, =
taken from a Korean web site (I believe), and downloaded a few years =
ago-- a bird which has dark eye, like the MA bird; and also because I =
would expect an adult Kam to present a pale eye.  In other words, the =
dark eye of the MA bird may suggest that it is NOT an adult.  =20

    Of course, the Korean site might have mislabelled adults as =
2nd-years.  In addition, dark eyes may be quite acceptable on adult =
Kams.=20

    The MA bird might be an adult Kam with a dark eye.  My observations =
of the pattern of apical spots on P9 and P10 might support that ID.  So =
does the photo I cited from BirdsKorea.   But  Heinei should still be =
considered.=20

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    Cambridge, MA
   =20

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Subject: Re: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 4:17pm

Julian Hough cries: > Yeeah..a post on a non-large gull!!! <

Well Julien, I am not so sure, male heinii's have wing length overlapping 
with female Lesser Black-backed Gulls!

As for the pale eyes: all canus races, even the tiny Anglo-Dutch minor can 
have pale eyes!
Cheers, Norman

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Subject: Re: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 4:35pm

Nice one Norman!

As to the age query referred to by Jim Barton, small dark spots on the tips 
to the outer few greater coverts may mean it's a tad bit younger than an 
adult, though I'm no expert.

Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net

www.naturescapeimages.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] canus or kamtschatschensis?

> Julian Hough cries: > Yeeah..a post on a non-large gull!!! <
>
> Well Julien, I am not so sure, male heinii's have wing length overlapping 
> with female Lesser Black-backed Gulls!
>
> As for the pale eyes: all canus races, even the tiny Anglo-Dutch minor can 
> have pale eyes!
> Cheers, Norman
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

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Subject: Re: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: Frode Falkenberg <Frode.Falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 5:05pm

Julian Hough wrote:
> Nice one Norman!
> 
> As to the age query referred to by Jim Barton, small dark spots on the 
> tips to the outer few greater coverts may mean it's a tad bit younger 
> than an adult, though I'm no expert.

Such black GC-spots may be present in a minority of second-winter Common 
Gulls wintering in NW Europe, but they are not common. However, both the 
greater and median PC's, as well as the alula, are usually pigmented 
with black during their second winter (3rd generation feathers). They 
might even appear on 3rd. winter birds, as on this one:
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/cg/3w_01.php

All the best,

Frode Falkenberg

> 
> Julian Hough,
> CT, USA
> jrhough1(AT)snet.net
> 
> www.naturescapeimages.net
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman D.van Swelm" 
> <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] canus or kamtschatschensis?
> 
> 
>> Julian Hough cries: > Yeeah..a post on a non-large gull!!! <
>>
>> Well Julien, I am not so sure, male heinii's have wing length 
>> overlapping with female Lesser Black-backed Gulls!
>>
>> As for the pale eyes: all canus races, even the tiny Anglo-Dutch minor 
>> can have pale eyes!
>> Cheers, Norman
>>
>>
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
>> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
> 
> 
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

-- 
Frode Falkenberg
Skolelaboratoriet i realfag, UiB
Allegaten 41
5007 Bergen
Tlf: 55 58 22 25

www.miljolare.no

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Subject: Re: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 12 Jan 2007 6:45pm

Julian Hough asked: > As to the age query referred to by Jim Barton, small 
dark spots on the tips
> to the outer few greater coverts may mean it's a tad bit younger than an 
> adult, though I'm no expert.<

Well Julian, Frode said it all but don't be surprised if some day a twenty 
year old gull turns up still showing the same old spots because as you may 
know by now in gulls the exception is the rule!
Cheers, Norman 

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Subject: Re: canus or kamtschatschensis?
From: Koen Verbanck <verbanckk(AT)SKYNET.BE>
Date: 13 Jan 2007 3:00am

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frode Falkenberg" <Frode.Falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] canus or kamtschatschensis?

> Julian Hough wrote:
> They might even appear on 3rd. winter birds, as on this one:
> http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/cg/3w_01.php

I am not quite certain that this bird is indeed a 3rd winter bird though....
It would have to be a very retarded 3rd winter with strangly quite a lot of 
unmoulted primary coverts then. Honestly, I don't see so much wrong at this 
bird for not being a 2nd winter: the mirrors on P10 & P9 are indeed slightly 
bigger then classis for 2winter, but P8&7 are without white tips and these 
should normally have at least (and mostly alreay quite visible) some white.

Below, just to illustrate Norm's stament of "in gulls the exception is the 
rule!"  some shots of a very different bird, what might likely just be an 
very old L.c.canus
http://users.skynet.be/digibirds/CommonGullspec.htm

Greetings,
Verbanck Koen

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Subject: A long weekend in SE Arizona--Photos
From: Bill Hubick <bill_hubick(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 13 Jan 2007 2:11pm

I posted a long list of sightings from last weekend, and =

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi Everyone,=0A=0AI posted a long list of sightings from last weekend, and =
wanted to follow up with a link to photos I took during the trip. If intere=
sted, please feel free to check them out at the link below. I posted quite =
a few images, so make sure to click the "View more AZ photos" link at the b=
ottom of the first page. I can hardly wait to come back in the spring and s=
ummer.=0A=0Ahttp://billhubick.com/new_set.html=0A=0AHave a great weekend,=
=0A=0ABill=0A =0ABill Hubick=0ASt. Denis, Baltimore Co., Maryland=0Abill_hu=
bick(AT)yahoo.com=0Ahttp://www.billhubick.com

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Subject: Re: The Trondheim mystery gull; Caspian, Herring,
          California?
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 13 Jan 2007 2:46pm

The California Gull of Trondheim is still alive and does what gulls do best 
namely confuse the very people who love them! Some pictures of Caspian and 
Baraba Gulls are shown here for comparison:

http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/gulls/indexyoungherringgulls.htm

Cheers, Norman

Frode Falkenberg wrote: > Since we're kind of into the unidentifiable stuff, 
several people have
> asked me whether the strange gull (you know, the proposed California 
> Gull...) that wintered in Trondheim, middle Norway is still around. And 
> yes, it is! Some new pictures and description is available at:
>
> http://cyberbirding.no/gull/
>
> New comments are of course appreciated!

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Subject: Re: Causes of extreme vagrancy
From: "Peter W. Post" <pwpost(AT)NYC.RR.COM>
Date: 13 Jan 2007 4:39pm

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

As regards Tony=B9s last comment the following paper may be of interest:

Fraser, Peter 1997
How many rarities are we missing? Weekend bias and length of stay revisited=
.
British Birds 90(3):94-101.

The author attempts to quantify the numbers of rarities being missed
annually, in Britain and Ireland, using statistical analysis and a
mathematical model.

Among the author=B9s conclusions:
During 1988-92 40% of rare birds were found on weekends, far greater than i=
t
would be (approximately 28%) were daily coverage uniform.
Even more rarities are first sighted on Sundays than Saturdays (21.3% of al=
l
first dates).

Based on rarities found from 1990-94 Fraser estimated that conservatively,
approximately 800 rarities in all groups are overlooked in Britain and
Ireland every year. The number for rare passerines and =B3near-passerines=B2
missed was estimated to be 400 per year and the number of waders 90-100 per
year, virtually the same as the number found. He felt that other groups,
mostly bigger birds, are probably not overlooked in such large numbers; the=
y
include about 240 to 340 herons and storks, ducks and geese, raptors, and
gulls and terns.

Peter W. Post
New York, NY

On 1/8/07 10:10 PM, "GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM" <GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM> wrote:

> Hi all:
> =20
> I heartily endorse Matt's comments about vagrancy not necessarily being a
> selected-against, aberrant trait of wayward individuals.  The situation w=
ith
> Black Redstart (is that right?) wintering in Great Britain and quite a fe=
w
> less-well documented examples suggest that vagrancy, while death to most
> individuals, may be a survival mechanism for species.  It just happens WA=
Y too
> often to be a complete dead end; one would think that after all these yea=
rs,
> if it weren't adaptive, vagrancy would be a LOT less frequent.  And that'=
s
> considering just the vagrancy that we birders (and ornithologists and the
> average Joe) DETECT.  I would surmise that, even in fairly well-worked
> portions of the globe, we find only a miniscule percentage of real vagran=
ts --
> possibly less than 0.01.
> =20
> Sincerely,
> =20
> Tony Leukering
> Brighton, CO
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbir=
dwg01
>=20
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>=20
>=20

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Subject: Re: A long weekend in SE Arizona--Photos
         (DISREGARD)
From: Bill Hubick <bill_hubick(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 13 Jan 2007 7:34pm

Please pardon my earlier off-topic post. I intended to se=

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi Everyone,=0A=0APlease pardon my earlier off-topic post. I intended to se=
nd it to the AZ/NM list. =0A=0AI'll be more careful with my browser's "auto=
-complete" function in the future. :)=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0ABill=0A =0ABill Hub=
ick=0ASt. Denis, Baltimore Co., Maryland=0Abill_hubick(AT)yahoo.com=0Ahttp://w=
ww.billhubick.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bill Hubic=
k <bill_hubick(AT)yahoo.com>=0ATo: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=0ASent: Satur=
day, January 13, 2007 4:11:32 PM=0ASubject: A long weekend in SE Arizona--P=
hotos=0A=0A=0AHi Everyone,=0A =0AI posted a long list of sightings from las=
t weekend, and wanted to follow up with a link to photos I took during the =
trip. If interested, please feel free to check them out at the link below. =
I posted quite a few images, so make sure to click the "View more AZ photos=
" link at the bottom of the first page. I can hardly wait to come back in t=
he spring and summer.=0A =0Ahttp://billhubick.com/new_set.html=0A =0AHave a=
 great weekend,=0A =0ABill=0A =0ABill Hubick=0ASt. Denis, Baltimore Co., Ma=
ryland=0Abill_hubick(AT)yahoo.com=0Ahttp://www.billhubick.com

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