ID-FRONTIERS for March 23-31, 2008

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Gull questions...another bad photo conundrum   Forrest Rowland    Sun, 23 Mar 2008   6:36am   Dark-backed ring-billed size gull   =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_   Mon, 24 Mar 2008   6:16am   Re: Great White Egret racial identification   MARTIN SCOTT    Mon, 24 Mar 2008   10:59am   Unusal Herring Gull   Paul & Andrea Kelly    Mon, 24 Mar 2008   1:41pm   Re: Unusal Herring Gull   Lethaby, Nick   Mon, 24 Mar 2008   1:46pm   Unusal Herring Gull   Paul & Andrea Kelly    Mon, 24 Mar 2008   2:18pm   Hybrid duck   Nick Anich    Wed, 26 Mar 2008   7:59am   Sinaloa, Caribbean or just Gray-breasted Martin?   Gunnar Engblom    Sun, 30 Mar 2008   12:58pm

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Subject: Gull questions...another bad photo conundrum
From: Forrest Rowland <rowbird2005(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 23 Mar 2008 6:36am

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Hello all,
  Forrest Rowland speaking. I recently joined this listserv for a number of
reasons. Not the least of which is that I want to learn, but also because I have
 a few mystery birds myself.
  On my flickr site there is a series of photos of a Gull that caught my eye.
I've seen Thayer's 4 times in my life, never in breeding plumage. Let me know
what you all think. The photos were taken on Port Mahon rd, Delaware, Feb 8.
   
  To access the photos select February Birds '08
  after clicking http://www.flickr.com/photos/24205189@N03/
   
  Thank you for any and all comments,
   
  Forrest Rowland
   
  PS - The Franklin's Gull discussion has been stimulating. Upperwing pattern on
 the bird in flight does not appear entirely inconsistent with 1CyW Franklin's,
though there is a distinct lack of white trailing edge as noted in previous
comments. The bill structure and over heft of the bird does not appear
consistent with Franklin's Gull. I see a lot of mention of abberant Med Gull.
Are they any resources regarding abberant Franklin's Gull? Granted I've not
reviewed every post made, it seems poignant.

       
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Subject: Dark-backed ring-billed size gull
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_Neise?= <greg(AT)LPZOO.ORG>
Date: 24 Mar 2008 6:16am

Hi all,

Time for another gull mystery from the St. Louis area, this time, Bill
Rudden posts pictures of what appear to be a second cycle, ring-billed-size
gull with a dark back. Here's his description:

feathers disarrayed adds to darkness of back.
-long dark centers to broad white edged inner median and greater coverts
-white tips of tertial extends up outer edges
-dark line (secondary skirt) at base of greater coverts 
-wide dark tail-band

...photographs and discussion at IBF:

http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=4049.0

Comments appreaciated.

Cheers,

-greg neise
Berwyn, IL

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Subject: Re: Great White Egret racial identification
From: MARTIN SCOTT <scillybirder(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 24 Mar 2008 10:59am

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Just to say the Great White Egret on the Outer Hebrides is still present (s=
een yday).=20
=20
Regards
=20
Martin

Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:58:01 -0400From: LGREUK400(AT)AOL.COMSubject: Re: [B=
IRDWG01] Great White Egret racial identificationTo: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZO=
NA.EDU

In a message dated 17/03/2008 22:50:54 GMT Standard Time, I.A.McLaren@DAL.C=
A writes:
http://web.mac.com/sherm39/iWeb/Site/egret080309.html

Many thanks for sharing this Nova Scotia occurrence with us, and it just ma=
kes me wonder if this was the bird that had wintered on the Outer Hebrides =
since October and last reported in early March. To my eye, the images seem =
to show a fairly typical black colouration, but the deep green colouration =
you mention is generally only hinted at during transitional plumage.=20
=20
Lee G R EvansBritish Birding AssociationUK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Or=
nithological Consultant and ConservationistDiscussion Forum/Email Group: ht=
tp://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/Rare Bird Alert: http://groups.yahoo.=
com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/Email Address: LGR=
EUK400(AT)aol.comWebsite Address: www.uk400clubonline.co.ukChaffinch House8 Sa=
ndycroft RoadLittle ChalfontAmershamBuckinghamshireEnglandHP6 6QLTelephones=
: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629(Lee Evans E=
nterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & =
Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare =
Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other relate=
d publications; Bird Tours for Birders)
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dwg01=20
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html=20

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Unusal Herring Gull
From: Paul & Andrea Kelly <paulandreakelly(AT)EIRCOM.NET>
Date: 24 Mar 2008 1:41pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi all,

 

While checking Gulls at Poolbeg in Dublin (Ireland), I came across this bird
which I considered to be Glaucous Herring Hybrid on Saturday in difficult
weather conditions, I was unhappy with this conclusion and returned the
following day and obtained the following images (see link below) it reminded
me of a smithsonianus, but all was not correct for this species either,
while I can't call it any thing else but argenteus/argentatus it must have
something else going on and I wonder if this could be a Nelsons as our
European Glaucous/Herring hybrids, while variable, they never seem to show
as dark upper and under tail coverts, this feature would appear to favour
the American Herring Gull side of things?

 

Considering time spent looking at Gulls over the years I can safely say I
have never observed anything with this combination before.

 

All comments welcome, bigger files on request.

 

Cheers.

 

Paul Kelly.

 

http://www.irishbirdimages.com/pages/latest.html

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Subject: Re: Unusal Herring Gull
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 24 Mar 2008 1:46pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Paul:

=20

I have seen quite a few Nelson's Gulls (but on the W. coast of the USA)
and they typically show Glaucous-like bill patterns. Smithsonianus
already trend to having a more Glaucous-like bill pattern (take a look
at 2W birds for example), so when you add a Glaucous to the mix, you
generally get something with much more obvious pale at the bill base
than your bird. Given that it's late March, your bird seems like dull on
the bill base.

=20

Nick

=20

________________________________

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul & Andrea Kelly
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:41 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Unusal Herring Gull

=20

Hi all,

=20

While checking Gulls at Poolbeg in Dublin (Ireland), I came across this
bird which I considered to be Glaucous Herring Hybrid on Saturday in
difficult weather conditions, I was unhappy with this conclusion and
returned the following day and obtained the following images (see link
below) it reminded me of a smithsonianus, but all was not correct for
this species either, while I can't call it any thing else but
argenteus/argentatus it must have something else going on and I wonder
if this could be a Nelsons as our European Glaucous/Herring hybrids,
while variable, they never seem to show as dark upper and under tail
coverts, this feature would appear to favour the American Herring Gull
side of things?

=20

Considering time spent looking at Gulls over the years I can safely say
I have never observed anything with this combination before.

=20

All comments welcome, bigger files on request.

=20

Cheers.

=20

Paul Kelly.

=20

http://www.irishbirdimages.com/pages/latest.html

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Subject: Unusal Herring Gull
From: Paul & Andrea Kelly <paulandreakelly(AT)EIRCOM.NET>
Date: 24 Mar 2008 2:18pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Thanks Nick,

 

The bill factor had being muted by one of our Irish Gull aces and I agree
with this, our own Glaucous/Herring also are similar but I must admit I have
not seen these beasts on the breeding ground, e.g. Iceland and can only
assume the small sample we see in Ireland represent the norm, so your field
observations may well rule out American side to my hybrid theory?

 

Thanks again Nick.

 

Paul.

 

  _____  

From: Lethaby, Nick [mailto:nlethaby(AT)ti.com] 
Sent: 24 March 2008 20:46
To: Paul & Andrea Kelly; BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Unusal Herring Gull

 

Paul:

 

I have seen quite a few Nelson's Gulls (but on the W. coast of the USA) and
they typically show Glaucous-like bill patterns. Smithsonianus already trend
to having a more Glaucous-like bill pattern (take a look at 2W birds for
example), so when you add a Glaucous to the mix, you generally get something
with much more obvious pale at the bill base than your bird. Given that it's
late March, your bird seems like dull on the bill base.

 

Nick

 

  _____  

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul & Andrea Kelly
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:41 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Unusal Herring Gull

 

Hi all,

 

While checking Gulls at Poolbeg in Dublin (Ireland), I came across this bird
which I considered to be Glaucous Herring Hybrid on Saturday in difficult
weather conditions, I was unhappy with this conclusion and returned the
following day and obtained the following images (see link below) it reminded
me of a smithsonianus, but all was not correct for this species either,
while I can't call it any thing else but argenteus/argentatus it must have
something else going on and I wonder if this could be a Nelsons as our
European Glaucous/Herring hybrids, while variable, they never seem to show
as dark upper and under tail coverts, this feature would appear to favour
the American Herring Gull side of things?

 

Considering time spent looking at Gulls over the years I can safely say I
have never observed anything with this combination before.

 

All comments welcome, bigger files on request.

 

Cheers.

 

Paul Kelly.

 

http://www.irishbirdimages.com/pages/latest.html

Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 

Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

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Subject: Hybrid duck
From: Nick Anich <nicka29(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 26 Mar 2008 7:59am

Comments would be appreciated on a hybrid duck I
observed yesterday in northeastern Arkansas.  It was
associating with Northern Shoveler and teal and has a
similar facial pattern that I saw on several purported
Gadwall x Northern Shoveler hybrids on the web 

http://www.flickr.com/groups/hybridbirds/discuss/72157601845174755/
http://www.ascabird.org/gadshov.jpg

(and actually has a similar head pattern to the recent
duck posted here from India), but my bird is lacking a
black rump. 

Description and photos are here:

http://www.pbase.com/nanich/hybrid_duck

Thanks,

Nick Anich
Jonesboro, AR

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Subject: Sinaloa, Caribbean or just Gray-breasted Martin?
From: Gunnar Engblom <gengblom(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Mar 2008 12:58pm

Dear all

I just uploaded a few pictures on 
http://birdingperu.com/picsfiles/photos.asp?idtipopic=1 taken last week 
in Iquitos. I think it may/could be Sinaloa Martin just from literature, 
but have no experience of the species.
 
I noticed this bird as being smaller than acompanying Southern Martins 
and extensive completely white underparts and totally purple upperparts, 
and considered it could have been a rare Sinaloa or Caribbean Martin, 
but disgarded it in the field as a Gray-breasted Martin, as I saw the 
throat being gray in the telescope. However, going through the pictures 
just now, I notice a big black patch on chest, indicating that it may 
have a black (or dark blue) chest and throat in full plumage, as well as 
very blackish flanks on one photo where it holds up its wings. Another 
picture shows how white the underparts were in decent light and another 
picture showing very white unstreaked undertail coverts.
I'd be interested in comments.
 
Gunnar

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