B-Mail(sm): ID-FRONTIERS for May 1-10, 2008

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Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight
From: Mike Collins <cinclodes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 1 May 2008 8:54am

I have recently posted additional information on the
new video (including comments from an expert on the
flight mechanics of birds) here...

http://www.fishcrow.com/winter08.html

Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia

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Subject: Listowner Message
From: will russell <willrussell(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 1 May 2008 9:18am

Good morning:

This seems like a good time to remind all ID-F subscribers that ID-F is an
open forum.  People can register and post without delay.  In all the years
that I've overseen the list, I can't recall once having to remove a
subscriber for unbecoming conduct.  There have of course been a few
occasions where the discourse has become rough or unbearably silly and I've
felt obliged to speak privately to the parties involved.  I much prefer this
approach.

All of us have seen ID-F posts that we consider useless or senseless . or
worse.  This is an inevitable part of an open list and sometimes results in
a furious exchange.  I would like to encourage all subscribers to act in
what history shows is among the most effective ways of responding to what
they consider nonsense..no response at all.

Thanks.

Will Russell
Listowner

Will Russell
willrussell(AT)comcast.net

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Subject: Re: Sabine's Gull molt
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 2 May 2008 1:20pm

Hello Laurent -

Howell and Dunn (p. 337) provide a good summary of the definitive 
molting cycle in Sabine' Gull. The prebasic molt actually begins with 
head feathers on the breeding grounds or during southbound migration, 
and completes primarily on the winter grounds. Many transequatorial 
migrant species delay the prebasic molt due to more favorable 
conditions for "winter" molt in the opposite hemisphere. There are no 
constraints on timing, as there is with north-hemisphere wintering 
species (such as Black-headed Gull), so the molt becomes protracted 
over the non-breeding season. The prealternate molt only includes 
body feathers and can overlap the tail end of the protracted prebasic 
molt, but it can still be treated as a prealternate molt, homologous 
with the partial molt in Black-headed Gull. I hope this helps clear it up.

Peter Pyle

At 07:13 PM 4/29/2008, Laurent Raty wrote:
>Hi Peter,
>
>But Sabine's molt strategy is not simply characterised by an increase in
>the amount of feathers molted during their preformative molts. After
>their complete preformative molt, unlike any other gull species, they
>stay on a 'reversed' cycle, with partial molts in autumn and complete
>molts in spring.
>
>Under Humphrey & Parkes' terminology, as far as I understand it, a
>complete molt occurring once every cycle should always be termed
>prebasic (independently of other phenomena in the bird cycle such as
>season or breeding, that may influence the brightness of the plumage it
>produces). The possible partial molts between them should be called
>prealternate. Prebasic molts (and the basic plumages acquired through
>them) are explicitly assumed to be homologous across all bird species;
>prealternate molts are presumed to have been 'added' between them.
>
>How does this apply to Sabine's Gull? Does this make their dark-hooded
>summer plumage a basic plumage, not homologous to the dark-hooded summer
>plumage of, say, a Black-headed Gull?
>
>Best,
>Laurent -
>
>
>Peter Pyle wrote:
>>Hi Joe and all -
>>Under the revised  terminology  of Howell et al. 2003 (Condor 
>>105:635-653) the "first prebasic molt" (PB1) is now considered to be
>>  the molt into juvenal plumage, which occurs at the natal site 
>> (synonymous with "prejuvenal molt"). Formerly, various molts were 
>> considered the PB1, including what we now call the preformative molt
>>  (most species), the first-prealternate molt (some species that lack
>>  preformative molts), or the second prebasic molt (some hawks, 
>> seabirds, and a few other taxa that lack first-cycle molts al 
>> together). This did not reflect evolutionary homologies among birds,
>>  which is what Humphrey and Parkes were trying to achieve with their
>>  nomenclature. The revisions of Howell et al. (2003) have greatly 
>> improved first-cycle H-P terminology from an evolutionary standpoint
>>  and have made it much easier to train students in the use of molt
>>for ageing and identification.
>>The preformative molt varies across species from absent to partial to
>>  incomplete to complete, depending on the life-history strategies of
>>  the species, and not as much on phylogenetics. Only a small 
>> proportion of species have evolved complete preformative molts, 
>> including species that are small and do not need substantial 
>> energy to replace all feathers (hummingbirds, Bushtit, etc.) and 
>> certain opportunists that can find enough resources during their 
>> first year to undergo a complete molt (starlings, doves). Most 
>> waterbirds that undergo complete preformative molts are small and 
>> highly migratory species that spend the first boreal winter in the 
>> southern hemisphere, where austral-summer resources and foraging 
>> day-lengths are sufficient to undergo more complete molting. These 
>> include some sandpipers, some terns, and Sabine's Gull. In many 
>> species, the molt
>>  can vary from incomplete to complete among individuals. Thus, 
>> completeness cannot be used to define these molts, and they are still
>>  preformative molts when compared to related or ancestral species. If
>>  you called the preformative molt in these waterbirds the PB1, 
>> just because they are complete, then you would be comparing them 
>> with preformative molts in related species (e.g., other sandpipers, terns,
>>  and gulls) and homology would be lost.
>>Molt is not a user-friendly subject but once you look at it from an 
>>evolutionary perspective, as Humphrey and Parkes originally promoted,
>>  it becomes a lot clearer. Hope this helps.
>>Peter
>>At 08:35 AM 4/29/2008, Joseph Morlan wrote:
>>>Last week I was teaching gulls in my Ornithology class and was 
>>>confused by the account of Sabine's Gull molt in "Gulls of the 
>>>Americas" by Howell & Dunn.
>>>Page 338 discusses a "typically complete" PF (preformative) molt. 
>>>If it's complete, then why not call it PB1 (prebasic 1)?
>>>Under Second Cycle the book discusses a PB2 molt.  How can there 
>>>logically be a PB2 molt unless there is also a PB1 molt?
>>>-- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044   jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu 
>>>Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF   http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ 
>>>California Bird Records Committee   http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
>
>
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Subject: Colorado Ruff
From: Rachel Hopper <r-hopper(AT)comcast.net>
Date: 3 May 2008 5:03am

Hi all,

I am interested in any comments on a Ruff that was discovered in Boulder, 
Colorado, by Ted Floyd on May 1. The discussion on our listserv has most 
folks leaning heavily towards an adult female in alternate. However, there 
has been a suggestion that the bird might be a formative plumaged male or 
"satellite male."

Pictures can be seen using the links below:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24817180@N02/show/
www.pbase.com/birdercellist/inbox

Thanks for any help.
-----------------------
Rachel Hopper
Ft. Collins, CO
Visit the CFO County Birding site at: www.coloradocountybirding.com

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Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff
From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 3 May 2008 11:48am

To All;
I responded privately to Rachel and Ted Floyd about the bird in this
posting, but I did not get the message from Frontiers in my e-mail, so I
thought that I would respond with the original message attached with the
same message that I sent earlier. Kevin Karlson

Rachel and Ted,
I think this bird is a Ruff, not a Reeve. I saw hundreds of Ruffs and
several Reeves in Israel in December, and just by body shape alone, it
matches the large, rounded body shape of Ruff and not the slender, tapered
shape of Reeve. In direct comparison, which does not happen often since they
segregate by sex during migration and mostly in winter as well, you can see
the bulky, more rounded body shape of Ruff, with thicker neck, giving the
head a disproportionally small impression. I did not get this impression
when a few much smaller nonbreeding Reeves walked past a group of about 200
Ruffs. The Reeves gave the impression of Pectoral Sandpiper in shape,
somewhat slender and more tapered. Also, adult Reeve in breeding plumage
shows limited amounts of the complex dark markings on the breast (see photo
of about 25 breeding Reeves taken in May in Greece on page 303 in The
Shorebird Guide), and none of the rich, cinnamon coloration on the head,
back, breast and flanks that the Colorado bird shows. 
I have limited experience in the field with breeding season Ruffs, although
I saw and photographed a questionable sex bird near Cape May a few years ago
in May, which I thought was a first summer Ruff, while others thought it to
be a Reeve. I sent the photo to my friend Clive Minton in Australia, who was
also puzzled by the dark markings on this bird, so he sent it to his
biologist friend in Russia, who has worked with breeding Ruffs and Reeves
for many years. He said it was a Reeve, but a heavily marked one at that, ad
a tough ID for most birders in the field with limited experience with
breeding Ruffs and Reeves. I have attached a link to that photo
http://www.kevinkarlsonphotography.com/gallery/v/Shorebirds/Sandpipers/Reeve
+and+rutu_+NJ_+May.jpg.html

I will show Clive Minton this photo when I return from Alaska in 2 1/2 weeks
and give you feedback from an Australian shorebird expert. Ted told me
yesterday that the bird in question also dwarfed a Lesser Yellowlegs in body
bulk and overall size, although not length, which a Reeve would not. I wish
a photo had been taken with the Lesser Yellowlegs in the same frame. It
would eliminate all this discussion.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Rachel Hopper
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:04 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Colorado Ruff

Hi all,

I am interested in any comments on a Ruff that was discovered in Boulder, 
Colorado, by Ted Floyd on May 1. The discussion on our listserv has most 
folks leaning heavily towards an adult female in alternate. However, there 
has been a suggestion that the bird might be a formative plumaged male or 
"satellite male."

Pictures can be seen using the links below:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24817180@N02/show/
www.pbase.com/birdercellist/inbox

Thanks for any help.
-----------------------
Rachel Hopper
Ft. Collins, CO
Visit the CFO County Birding site at: www.coloradocountybirding.com

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Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff
From: John Puschock <g_g_allin(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 3 May 2008 12:43pm

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> I will show Clive Minton this photo when I return from Alaska in 2 1/2 we=
eks
> and give you feedback from an Australian shorebird expert. Ted told me
> yesterday that the bird in question also dwarfed a Lesser Yellowlegs in b=
ody
> bulk and overall size, although not length, which a Reeve would not. I wi=
sh
> a photo had been taken with the Lesser Yellowlegs in the same frame. It
> would eliminate all this discussion.
> Kevin

There is a photo of this bird next to a yellowlegs in the Surfbirds 'North =
American Stop Press' photo gallery (http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/galler=
y/display.cgi?gallery=3Dgallery10)

John Puschock
Seattle, WA
g_g_allin(AT)hotmail.com
http://www.birdtreks.com

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Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff
From: Richard Chandler <r_chandler(AT)TISCALI.CO.UK>
Date: 4 May 2008 2:53am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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This is a most interesting bird.  First, as Kevin Karlson says, it is a =
male, on both size in comparison with the Lesser Yellowlegs, and also on =
structure.  Compared to a (more delicate) female Ruff it is bulky, =
rather angular in shape, and has a proportionally smaller head and bill.

It is in breeding/alternate plumage (which Ruffs of both sexes acquire =
from late January), but it does not show any supplementary breeding =
plumage, that is the ruff, ear tufts, etc.  In Europe male Ruffs have =
their supplemental plumage from mid-late April.

So why is it not in full supplementary plumage?  There are two or three =
likely explanations for this that I can think of.  First it is simply =
delayed in attaining its supplemental plumage, perhaps because it is =
un-fit, or simply totally disoriented.  This seems unlikely, as if this =
was the case it would still show mainly basic plumage, and would not =
have acquired breeding plumage.  Second, it might be a second calendar =
year bird that will not breed; again this is inconsistent with the near =
complete alternate plumage.  However I would like to see the =
wing-coverts (in the images shown they are largely covered by the breast =
feathers) which are usually retained juvenile or basic feathers in =
second calendar years, but breeding-type in adults.

The third possibility is that this is an example of the recently =
recognised "faeder", a male with female-type breeding plumage which =
"sneaks" matings at the lek.  Faeders are rare; 1 in 100 apparently.  =
They have measurements that in just about every respect are intermediate =
between conventional males and females.

Difficult to be sure, but as I said, an interesting bird.

On a secondary issue, does anyone know if Ruffs breed in north America?

Richard Chandler
Oundle  UK

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Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 4 May 2008 3:30am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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  Like so many other wader species on migration at this very moment =
passing Ruffs show all kinds of stages mo(u)lting from winter to =
breeding plumage. I bet if you could trap this adult male you will find =
both crest and ruff in the making underneath it's head and neck =
feathers.
  Norman

  Richard Chandler wrote: >This is a most interesting bird.  First, as =
Kevin Karlson says, it is a male, on both size in comparison with the =
Lesser Yellowlegs, and also on structure.  Compared to a (more delicate) =
female Ruff it is bulky, rather angular in shape, and has a =
proportionally smaller head and bill.

  It is in breeding/alternate plumage (which Ruffs of both sexes acquire =
from late January), but it does not show any supplementary breeding =
plumage, that is the ruff, ear tufts, etc.  In Europe male Ruffs have =
their supplemental plumage from mid-late April.

  So why is it not in full supplementary plumage?  There are two or =
three likely explanations for this that I can think of.  First it is =
simply delayed in attaining its supplemental plumage, perhaps because it =
is un-fit, or simply totally disoriented.  This seems unlikely, as if =
this was the case it would still show mainly basic plumage, and would =
not have acquired breeding plumage.  Second, it might be a second =
calendar year bird that will not breed; again this is inconsistent with =
the near complete alternate plumage.  However I would like to see the =
wing-coverts (in the images shown they are largely covered by the breast =
feathers) which are usually retained juvenile or basic feathers in =
second calendar years, but breeding-type in adults.

  The third possibility is that this is an example of the recently =
recognised "faeder", a male with female-type breeding plumage which =
"sneaks" matings at the lek.  Faeders are rare; 1 in 100 apparently.  =
They have measurements that in just about every respect are intermediate =
between conventional males and females.

  Difficult to be sure, but as I said, an interesting bird.

  On a secondary issue, does anyone know if Ruffs breed in north America?

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Subject: Sutton Warbler pics
From: Matt Sharp <gentrysharp(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 May 2008 9:05am

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Not really a ID question but thought other might find this interesting.

I have never come across such good pics of this bird and wonder if anything
comparable even exists!

Best

http://www.westol.com/~banding/Suttons_Warbler.htm

http://www.birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/PENN.html#1209944645

http://www.birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/PENN.html#1209922206

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Subject: RFI - Rail vocalization
From: Andrew Spencer <gwwarbler(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 May 2008 9:54am

Hello all,

While down in southeastern Colorado this past weekend, I was recording 
Black Rails in the Fort Lyon area marshes when I heard a deep grunting 
call come from nearby.  Luckily, I had my mic on, so I got it in the 
background of my recording.  I have posted it as a mystery sound here:

http://www.xeno-canto.org/discussion.php?snd_nr=681

The call is quiet, and in the background, so you might need to listed 
with headphones, and ignore the much louder Black Rail in the foreground.

Birds of North America describes a call: "given by males during the 
prenesting period is a deep booming sound /�om-�om-�om/, requiring an 
effort that causes the body to appear to expand slightly. It is not very 
loud and its purpose unknown. ", which sounds very similar to what I 
recorded.  I have never heard a call like this from Virginia Rail, nor 
does BNA describe anything that matches.  Can any of you with experience 
with King Rail vocalizations say if that is the species that made this 
one?  Or have any of you heard this sound from other marsh species?  Thanks,

Andrew Spencer
Fort Collins, CO

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Subject: Re: RFI - Rail vocalization
From: Sebastian Patti <sebastianpatti(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 May 2008 4:44pm

hard to tell how "loud" the call was, i.e. no sense of distance, but couldn't
that be a Black Rail "grrr" call???

sebastianpatti(AT)hotmail.comSebastian T. Patti (Lincoln Park) Chicago, ILLINOIS
60614-3354 PHONE: 312/603-4416 (o) 773/248-0570 (h) FAX: 312/603-2041 (o)
773/248-0264 (h)

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:53:45 -0600
> From: gwwarbler(AT)GMAIL.COM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI - Rail vocalization
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>
> Hello all,
>
> While down in southeastern Colorado this past weekend, I was recording
> Black Rails in the Fort Lyon area marshes when I heard a deep grunting
> call come from nearby. Luckily, I had my mic on, so I got it in the
> background of my recording. I have posted it as a mystery sound here:
>
> http://www.xeno-canto.org/discussion.php?snd_nr=681
>
> The call is quiet, and in the background, so you might need to listed
> with headphones, and ignore the much louder Black Rail in the foreground.
>
> Birds of North America describes a call: "given by males during the
> prenesting period is a deep booming sound /�om-�om-�om/, requiring an
> effort that causes the body to appear to expand slightly. It is not very
> loud and its purpose unknown. ", which sounds very similar to what I
> recorded. I have never heard a call like this from Virginia Rail, nor
> does BNA describe anything that matches. Can any of you with experience
> with King Rail vocalizations say if that is the species that made this
> one? Or have any of you heard this sound from other marsh species? Thanks,
>
> Andrew Spencer
> Fort Collins, CO
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
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Subject: Re: RFI - Rail vocalization
From: Andrew Spencer <gwwarbler(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 May 2008 5:11pm

I don't think it is the "grr" call of Black Rail - that is higher 
pitched, on one pitch, and faster, with more notes.  I recorded it from 
an agitated bird immediately before I made this recording.

I have had a couple of people who know King Rail well say they don't 
recognize this vocalization, and who say they don't recognize this 
vocalization at all.  I don't think it is from Virginia Rail - it is 
lower pitched, and more resonant.  I don't think it was very loud; it 
didn't seem all that far away.

Andrew Spencer
Fort Collins, CO

Sebastian Patti wrote:
> hard to tell how "loud" the call was, i.e. no sense of distance, but couldn't
that be a Black Rail "grrr" call???
>
>
>
>
>
> sebastianpatti(AT)hotmail.comSebastian T. Patti (Lincoln Park) Chicago, ILLINOIS
60614-3354 PHONE: 312/603-4416 (o) 773/248-0570 (h) FAX: 312/603-2041 (o)
773/248-0264 (h)
>
> ----------------------------------------
>   
>> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:53:45 -0600
>> From: gwwarbler(AT)GMAIL.COM
>> Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI - Rail vocalization
>> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> While down in southeastern Colorado this past weekend, I was recording
>> Black Rails in the Fort Lyon area marshes when I heard a deep grunting
>> call come from nearby. Luckily, I had my mic on, so I got it in the
>> background of my recording. I have posted it as a mystery sound here:
>>
>> http://www.xeno-canto.org/discussion.php?snd_nr=681
>>
>> The call is quiet, and in the background, so you might need to listed
>> with headphones, and ignore the much louder Black Rail in the foreground.
>>
>> Birds of North America describes a call: "given by males during the
>> prenesting period is a deep booming sound /�om-�om-�om/, requiring an
>> effort that causes the body to appear to expand slightly. It is not very
>> loud and its purpose unknown. ", which sounds very similar to what I
>> recorded. I have never heard a call like this from Virginia Rail, nor
>> does BNA describe anything that matches. Can any of you with experience
>> with King Rail vocalizations say if that is the species that made this
>> one? Or have any of you heard this sound from other marsh species? Thanks,
>>
>> Andrew Spencer
>> Fort Collins, CO
>>
>>
>> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>>     
>
>   

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Subject: Phylloscopus borealis (Arctic Warbler), a 1st for
          Israel ?
From: Avner Cohen <AvnerCo(AT)FUNDTECH.CO.IL>
Date: 6 May 2008 4:50am

Greetings all,

A Phylloscopus borealis (Arctic Warbler) has been seemingly sighted and
photographed at the southern tip of Israel (Eilat).

The local knowledge on this species is very limited and being a
potential first for the country, I will appreciate comments from people
experienced with this species.

Image (single one for the time being) can be found at :
http://www.israbirding.com/reports/rarity_alerts/arctic_warbler_eilat_08
/

I will highly appreciate comments regarding the bird,  even just
privately sending "sure it is one!" will be of great help.

Best Regards,

     Avner Cohen, Israel.

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Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays
         Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 6 May 2008 8:09pm

HI ALL:
 This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments?

-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
" Which just goes to show that a
  passion for books is extremely unhealthy."
 from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700
From: Bob Stallcop <bstallcop(AT)seanet.com>
To: Tweeters List <tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2?

Tweets:

I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2(AT)aol.com), please
send any off-line replies to him.

Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my
reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2,
2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841

I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did.  It was high
tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the
Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing
the sand with a large group of western sandpipers.  Those who I questioned
said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was
dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was
white.

By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had
settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers.  It was easy to
find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we
got the two photos.  After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my
knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the
festival.  Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade
through.

I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the
time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint.  Of course
everyone wanted to see a more complete photo.  This one looks like those
photo quizes in the Birding magazine.  I hope my photo might shed some
additional information.  It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc.
but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in
Nome, AK.  That was Marian's initial opinion as well.  Could you give us any
help with this?

Bob Stallcop
bstallcop(AT)seanet.com
(425) 922-2300
Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA.

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Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 6 May 2008 8:16pm

This is just some freaky bird, presumably a Western based on the
descriptions of it being similar to Westerns. A RNST or LIST doesn't
look anything like this.

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:11 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays
Harbor May2? (fwd)

HI ALL:
 This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments?

-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
" Which just goes to show that a
  passion for books is extremely unhealthy."
 from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700
From: Bob Stallcop <bstallcop(AT)seanet.com>
To: Tweeters List <tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2?

Tweets:

I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2(AT)aol.com),
please
send any off-line replies to him.

Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by
my
reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May
2,
2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841

I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did.  It was
high
tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey,
the
Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it
probing
the sand with a large group of western sandpipers.  Those who I
questioned
said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was
dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was
white.

By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird
had
settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers.  It was easy to
find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes
and we
got the two photos.  After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my
knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the
festival.  Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade
through.

I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at
the
time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint.  Of course
everyone wanted to see a more complete photo.  This one looks like those
photo quizes in the Birding magazine.  I hope my photo might shed some
additional information.  It doesn't show details of feather patterns
etc.
but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw
in
Nome, AK.  That was Marian's initial opinion as well.  Could you give us
any
help with this?

Bob Stallcop
bstallcop(AT)seanet.com
(425) 922-2300
Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA.

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http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters

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Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2?
From: Alan Contreras <acontrer(AT)MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: 6 May 2008 8:30pm

The huge expanse of color makes it look like a Sanderling.  Having made that
mistake twice (and helped a group of birders avoid making it once) I know
what it feels like.  I suppose it could also be a color-dyed Western.

Maybe an extreme variant Red-necked could look that way.  I have only seen a
couple of June adults and a couple of juveniles.

-- 
Alan Contreras
EUGENE, OREGON
acontrer(AT)mindspring.com
www.OREGONREVIEW.BLOGSPOT.COM � Commentary
www.CONTRERASBIRDS.BLOGSPOT.COM � Current Bird Photos

"Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am
horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human.  It is
always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept
this, that the people's anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes
me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed;
that they gamble--yes, gamble--with a whole part of their life and their
so-called 'vital interests'."

Albert Camus, 1937

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Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 6 May 2008 8:41pm

To all;
I was sent a blow up of this photo by Clay Taylor the other day, and
responded privately to him. Here is a copy of my text on this sandpiper:

The fact that this bird has a rear toe eliminates Sanderling, and the size
seems to be on the large end of Western Sandpiper. Since it has almost
identical upper flank markings as the nearby Westerns, and the body
structure seems similar as well, I would have to say female Western. As far
as the cinnamon color goes, it is very bright for this time of year to be
consistent with Little Stint, which only shows the bright, cinnamon head
color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most
Westerns, particularly females, and they would not show any streaking within
the head and neck color, which this bird clearly shows. Red-necked is also
not this bright in early spring. I don't know how to explain the intense
cinnamon color on this bird, especially the lack of pale supercilium that
Western shows. It might be an overload of pigment, or another reason that I
cannot think of. Either way, it looks fine in shape and markings for a
Western, probably a large female. 

Anyway, I don't go looking for a rarity if only the color is off on a bird
that has the markings of an expected species, and the shape as well.  Kevin

  Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
" Which just goes to show that aClay,
passion for books is extremely unhealthy."
 from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700
From: Bob Stallcop <bstallcop(AT)seanet.com>
To: Tweeters List <tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2?

Tweets:

I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2(AT)aol.com), please
send any off-line replies to him.

Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my
reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2,

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:11 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor
May2? (fwd)

HI ALL:
 This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments?

-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
" Which just goes to show that a
  passion for books is extremely unhealthy."
 from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700
From: Bob Stallcop <bstallcop(AT)seanet.com>
To: Tweeters List <tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2?

Tweets:

I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2(AT)aol.com), please
send any off-line replies to him.

Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my
reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2,
2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841

I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did.  It was high
tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the
Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing
the sand with a large group of western sandpipers.  Those who I questioned
said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was
dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was
white.

By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had
settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers.  It was easy to
find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we
got the two photos.  After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my
knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the
festival.  Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade
through.

I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the
time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint.  Of course
everyone wanted to see a more complete photo.  This one looks like those
photo quizes in the Birding magazine.  I hope my photo might shed some
additional information.  It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc.
but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in
Nome, AK.  That was Marian's initial opinion as well.  Could you give us any
help with this?

Bob Stallcop
bstallcop(AT)seanet.com
(425) 922-2300
Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA.

_______________________________________________
Tweeters mailing list
Tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu
http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters

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http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01

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[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2?
From: Alan Contreras <acontrer(AT)MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: 6 May 2008 8:46pm

I can't see its feet at all.  Are you using the same photo?

-- 
Alan Contreras
EUGENE, OREGON
acontrer(AT)mindspring.com
www.OREGONREVIEW.BLOGSPOT.COM � Commentary
www.CONTRERASBIRDS.BLOGSPOT.COM � Current Bird Photos

"Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am
horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human.  It is
always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept
this, that the people's anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes
me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed;
that they gamble--yes, gamble--with a whole part of their life and their
so-called 'vital interests'."

Albert Camus, 1937

> From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
> Reply-To: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:41:37 -0400
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor
> May2? (fwd)
> 
>  cinnamon head
> color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most

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[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2?
From: Clay Taylor <ctaylor(AT)ATT.NET>
Date: 6 May 2008 8:53pm

No, he used mine.  I'll send you one.  At the moment, I have no photo site 
on which to post it, but I just sent it to Ian,.

Ian, you have my permission to post it wherever is appropriate so others can 
see it.

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor(AT)att.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Contreras" <acontrer(AT)MINDSPRING.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays 
Harbor May2?

I can't see its feet at all.  Are you using the same photo?

-- 
Alan Contreras
EUGENE, OREGON
acontrer(AT)mindspring.com
www.OREGONREVIEW.BLOGSPOT.COM � Commentary
www.CONTRERASBIRDS.BLOGSPOT.COM � Current Bird Photos

"Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am
horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human.  It is
always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept
this, that the people's anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes
me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed;
that they gamble--yes, gamble--with a whole part of their life and their
so-called 'vital interests'."

Albert Camus, 1937

> From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
> Reply-To: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:41:37 -0400
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays 
> Harbor
> May2? (fwd)
>
>  cinnamon head
> color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most

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[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 7 May 2008 9:10am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

I agree with what Kevin and the others have said regarding this bird. The only
shot I saw was the flock shot and the color and the distribution of the cinammon
 color extending over the head and onto the back is at odds with either stint
species.

  As for brightness, I have seen Little Stints in the UK and on passage in Spain
 in May that have been relatively brightly coloured on the head and Red-necked
in China and Australia also in May that have been very brightly coloured, but as
 Kevin says, the distribution of color in any event doesn't match up.

  Strange bird..

  J

"Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET> wrote:
  To all;
I was sent a blow up of this photo by Clay Taylor the other day, and
responded privately to him. Here is a copy of my text on this sandpiper:

The fact that this bird has a rear toe eliminates Sanderling, and the size
seems to be on the large end of Western Sandpiper. Since it has almost
identical upper flank markings as the nearby Westerns, and the body
structure seems similar as well, I would have to say female Western. As far
as the cinnamon color goes, it is very bright for this time of year to be
consistent with Little Stint, which only shows the bright, cinnamon head
color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most
Westerns, particularly females, and they would not show any streaking within
the head and neck color, which this bird clearly shows. Red-necked is also
not this bright in early spring. I don't know how to explain the intense
cinnamon color on this bird, especially the lack of pale supercilium that
Western shows. It might be an overload of pigment, or another reason that I
cannot think of. Either way, it looks fine in shape and markings for a
Western, probably a large female. 

Anyway, I don't go looking for a rarity if only the color is off on a bird
that has the markings of an expected species, and the shape as well. Kevin

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
" Which just goes to show that aClay,
passion for books is extremely unhealthy."
from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700
From: Bob Stallcop 
To: Tweeters List 
Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2?

Tweets:

I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2(AT)aol.com), please
send any off-line replies to him.

Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my
reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2,

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:11 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor
May2? (fwd)

HI ALL:
This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments?

-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
" Which just goes to show that a
passion for books is extremely unhealthy."
from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart".

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700
From: Bob Stallcop 
To: Tweeters List 
Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2?

Tweets:

I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2(AT)aol.com), please
send any off-line replies to him.

Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my
reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2,
2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841

I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did. It was high
tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the
Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing
the sand with a large group of western sandpipers. Those who I questioned
said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was
dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was
white.

By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had
settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers. It was easy to
find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we
got the two photos. After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my
knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the
festival. Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade
through.

I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the
time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint. Of course
everyone wanted to see a more complete photo. This one looks like those
photo quizes in the Birding magazine. I hope my photo might shed some
additional information. It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc.
but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in
Nome, AK. That was Marian's initial opinion as well. Could you give us any
help with this?

Bob Stallcop
bstallcop(AT)seanet.com
(425) 922-2300
Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA.

_______________________________________________
Tweeters mailing list
Tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu
http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters

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Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 7 May 2008 5:15pm

Kevin T. Karlson wrote: >As far as the cinnamon color goes, it is very 
bright for this time of year to be consistent with Little Stint, which only 
shows the bright, cinnamon head color in mid to late summer. <

Little Stint can be brightly coloured in spring too, have a look here:

http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/LittleStintCalidrisminuta.htm

In this plumage they may indeed resemble Sanderling in rufous breeding 
plumage though that species is a lot bigger.
Norman 

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Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: Clay Taylor <ctaylor(AT)ATT.NET>
Date: 7 May 2008 9:04pm

True, but Kevin also noted the lack of any other head markings, supercilium, 
etc. on Sleeping Waldo.   Your photo example is boldly marked, as are other 
photos I have seen.

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor(AT)att.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays 
Harbor May2? (fwd)

> Kevin T. Karlson wrote: >As far as the cinnamon color goes, it is very 
> bright for this time of year to be consistent with Little Stint, which 
> only shows the bright, cinnamon head color in mid to late summer. <
>
> Little Stint can be brightly coloured in spring too, have a look here:
>
>
http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/LittleStintCalidrisminuta.htm
>
> In this plumage they may indeed resemble Sanderling in rufous breeding 
> plumage though that species is a lot bigger.
> Norman
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

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Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at
         Grays Harbor May2? (fwd)
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 8 May 2008 1:17am

Clay Taylor wrote: > True, but Kevin also noted the lack of any other head 
markings, supercilium,
> etc. on Sleeping Waldo.   Your photo example is boldly marked, as are 
> other photos I have seen.<

Also true Clay but bear in mind that my pictures were taken at a very short 
distance, the further away a bird is the more these details fade away. If 
Kevin saw the same picture of the Grays Harbor peep as I did I admire him 
for being able to distinguish the features you mention as I saw barely more 
than a reddish dot!
Cheers, Norman

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Subject: "Frontiers"-relevant content in current issue of
         Birding
From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 8 May 2008 1:58pm

Hello, Birders.

Several articles with "Frontiers"-relevant content are in the current (May/June
2008) issue of Birding, and are available online:

Photo Quiz Answers: Here's Lookin' At You...Spizella?
by Tony Leukering
http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p72.pdf

Greenland Geese in North America
by Dominic F. Sherony
http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p46.pdf

News and Notes
by Paul Hess
http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p34.pdf
[see especially items on hybrid warblers and grebe-flamingo relationships]

Sightings: Early March to Early April 2008
by Michael L. P. Retter
http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p32.pdf

Additional content at http://aba.org/birding/archives.html

Comments always welcome!

Ted Floyd
tedfloyd57(AT)hotmail.com
Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Tufted Flycatcher photos
From: Jerry Oldenettel <Borealowl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 9 May 2008 8:56am

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I have posted additional photos of the Herb Martyr Tufted Flycatcher on my 
photo site at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel/

Jerry R. Oldenettel
Socorro, NM

**************
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists 
on family favorites at AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

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Subject: Re: Listowner Message
From: Mike Collins <cinclodes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 May 2008 3:37pm

>All of us have seen ID-F posts that we consider
useless or senseless.

After the announcement of the new video was posted,
one of the participants in this forum (a professional
biologist, who apparently didn't consider the post
useless or senseless) encouraged me to send the raw
data to a leading expert on the flight mechanics of
woodpeckers. Based on the well-resolved flap style
(which was captured from several angles), the expert
has determined that the bird in the video is a large
woodpecker with a flap rate that is too high to be a
pileated. This really narrows down the list of
possibilities, but the bird also has extensive white
on the dorsal surfaces of the wings and a fast and
direct flight (but it doesn't have duck-like flaps). I
can't understand why any serious birder wouldn't
consider this a fascinating identification problem,
especially after hearing the comments from the expert.

Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia

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Subject: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images
From: gdentremont(AT)JUNO.COM
Date: 9 May 2008 5:28pm

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii  
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg- (side
view)http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg- (straight
on)http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg- (perspective)

I would like some input of the bird in the above images taken in the
Boston area.  Also, does anyone have any reliable reports of Saltmarsh
Sharp-tailed from any place other than a saltmarsh (I can think of none
from MA)?  I do not like to ID something from habitat alone, especially
in migration.

Thanking you in advance.

        Glenn

Glenn d'Entremont, gdentremont(AT)juno.com, Stoughton, MA

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Subject: red stints Grays Harbor on line
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 9 May 2008 5:52pm

Clay Taylor's picture which Kevin Karlson analysed and commented on is now 
available here:

http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/identifacation%20problems/id%20problems.htm

Interestingly the picture shows not one but two red stints and in the bird 
on the left a pale supercilium can be detected. Are they Western Sandpipers 
as Kevin suggested? If not three other stints which may show bright cinnamon 
in their breeding plumage remain to choose from. Little Stint, such as this 
one here:

http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/LittleStintCalidrisminuta.htm

Red-necked Stint of course and .......... Spoon-billed Sandpiper! Have a go 
please and tell us what you think.
Cheers, Norman 

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Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images
From: Andrew Birch <andrewlbirch(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 9 May 2008 5:56pm

Hello All,

I noticed Glenn's post included a hyphen on the end of the address for
my pics so...

You can see them by going to http://bostonbirds.org/blog.html and
navigating to the Sharp-tailed entry, or you can go straight to the
files -

http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg   - (side view)
http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg   - (straight on)
http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg   - (perspective)

In the field everyone was leaning toward Nelson's but the side view
changed my mind when I cropped the image.  If anyone would like the
raw image files I can make them available.  Looking forward to your
feedback!

-- 
Andrew Birch
Boston Birds Moderator
http://bostonbirds.org
andrewlbirch(AT)gmail.com

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Subject: Oldsquaw hybridisation
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 9 May 2008 5:56pm

Have a look here please:

http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/ducks/ducks6oldsquaw%20clangula%20hyemalis.htm

Are other cases known or is this a first?
Norman 

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Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images
From: David Sibley <david_sibley(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 9 May 2008 7:57pm

This looks like a typical Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed, with long bill, 
coarsely-marked face and breast, small dark streaks in the orange 
supercilium, and orange malar contrasting with paler breast. There are a 
couple of records of this species far inland in Pennsylvania, but it's 
true that ANY record away from coastal salt marsh is noteworthy, and 
there aren't very many nesting north of Boston.

Best,
David Sibley
Concord, MA

Andrew Birch wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I noticed Glenn's post included a hyphen on the end of the address for
> my pics so...
>
> You can see them by going to http://bostonbirds.org/blog.html and
> navigating to the Sharp-tailed entry, or you can go straight to the
> files -
>
> http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg   - (side view)
> http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg   - (straight on)
> http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg   - (perspective)
>
> In the field everyone was leaning toward Nelson's but the side view
> changed my mind when I cropped the image.  If anyone would like the
> raw image files I can make them available.  Looking forward to your
> feedback!
>
>   

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Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images
From: Louis Bevier <lrbevier(AT)COLBY.EDU>
Date: 10 May 2008 6:55am

I agree with David Sibley that the sharp-tailed sparrow seen on  
Boston Common looks like a Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow. The  
obvious dark streaks in the rear portion of orange supercillium are  
very good for Saltmarsh. (Are these *always* lacking on Nelson's,  
which at most have only very fine lines?) The long bill is good too,  
but really difficult to assess on lone birds or without good  
comparative experience.

One character that David mentions--orange malar contrasting with  
paler breast--is shown by Saltmarsh but doesn't eliminate Acadian  
(Nelson's) Sharp-tailed (subvirgatus race), which also can show  
similar contrast between an orangish malar and pale buff or whitish  
buff breast. Another feature shown by the Boston bird that should be  
noted is the fairly strong submalar streak (lateral throat streak).  
This is typical of Saltmarsh. Nelson's, especially subvirgatus that  
breeds along the coast from northeastern Massachusetts north, usually  
shows only a fine grayish submalar streak.

A Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow on Boston Common is a surprising  
record, and I'm still trying to imagine a sharp-tail sparrow flying  
UP to the lower branches of oak trees like a Chipping Sparrow to seek  
cover! There is an inland record from not far away in interior  
northeastern Connecticut. That is a specimen of a bird found dead  
along the Willimantic River at Willington, CT, about 35+ miles (56+  
km) from the coast on 12 June 1973 (see pg. 109 in Clark, G. A. 1999.  
Birds of Storrs, Connecticut, and vicinity). That site is not  
contiguous with coastal localities (Boston Common is at least near  
the coast), and, although the Willimantic River does ultimately reach  
the coast, it is at New London where there are no Saltmarsh Sparrows  
nesting. Perhaps there are a few Saltmarsh Sparrows that attempt to  
"cut across" southeastern New England in migration. There are a few  
records more similar to the Boston Common bird, e.g. not far from  
tidal portions of rivers or coasts and away from saltmarshes (e.g.  
Conshohocken, PA in spring, and Tullytown, PA in fall). The far  
inland records from Pennsylvania that David mentioned are both from  
fall. David neglected to mention that he discussed these records  
among others in a short article published in North American Birds  
(vol.59, no. 3, pgs. 524-525, 2005). Saltmarsh Sparrow breeds along  
the coast north of Boston for about 140 miles. Surveys from 1997-2000  
recorded 176 birds in marshes from about Plum I., Massachusetts north  
to Weskeag marsh in Knox County, Maine (see Hodgman et al., Wilson  
Bulletin vol. 114, no. 1, pgs. 38�43, 2002).

Louis Bevier
Fairfield, Maine

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Subject: Re: [EBN] Oldsquaw hybridisation
From: Harry Lehto <hlehto(AT)UTU.FI>
Date: 10 May 2008 8:25am

Norm et al. 
A Long-tailed Duck male has hybridized with a Chestnut teal ( Anas castanea)
female. (Gillham & Gillham Hybrid ducks referring to Delacour 1956 (54-59),
Waterfowl of the world)

Harry
-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Harry J Lehto
Tuorla Observatory
University of Turku
V�is�l�ntie 20
FI-21500 Piikki�
FINLAND
hlehto(at)utu.fi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:56 am
Subject: [EBN] Oldsquaw hybridisation

> Have a look here please:
> 
>
http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/ducks/ducks6oldsquaw%20clangula%20hyemalis.htm
> 
> Are other cases known or is this a first?
> Norman 
> 
> 

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ID-FRONTIERS for May 1-10, 2008

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ID-FRONTIERS for May 1-10, 2008

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Last Updated: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:51am MT