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ID-FRONTIERS for June 1-6, 2009
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Blog update | Allen T. Chartier | Mon, 1 Jun 2009 | 6:04am |
| Re: RFI on Pine Flycatcher, Empidonax affinis | Joseph Morlan | Mon, 1 Jun 2009 | 11:02am |
| Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon | Leith McKenzie | Mon, 1 Jun 2009 | 2:03pm |
| Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon | Lethaby, Nick | Mon, 1 Jun 2009 | 2:07pm |
| Re: Attwater Myiarchus Revisited | Kevin Karlson | Mon, 1 Jun 2009 | 3:48pm |
| Lilian's Meadowlark songs | Nathan Pieplow | Mon, 1 Jun 2009 | 8:20pm |
| Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon (long and boring) | Leith McKenzie | Tue, 2 Jun 2009 | 9:56am |
| Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon (long and boring) | Lethaby, Nick | Tue, 2 Jun 2009 | 10:05am |
| Another Wood Pewee in the West... | Gavin Bieber | Wed, 3 Jun 2009 | 4:18pm |
| Little Egret with dark eyes | Norman D.van Swelm | Thu, 4 Jun 2009 | 1:19pm |
| Fw: [MEBirdNet] Little Egret with dark eyes | Norman D.van Swelm | Thu, 4 Jun 2009 | 3:54pm |
| Re: Little Egret with dark eyes | Harry Hussey | Fri, 5 Jun 2009 | 4:54am |
| Re: Another Wood Pewee in the West... | Ted Floyd | Fri, 5 Jun 2009 | 2:10pm |
| teal ID | Mitch | Sat, 6 Jun 2009 | 2:27pm |
| teal ID | Mitch | Sat, 6 Jun 2009 | 2:27pm |
| Re: Little Egret with dark eyes | Norman D.van Swelm | Sat, 6 Jun 2009 | 6:02pm |
| Re: Little Egret with dark eyes | Norman D.van Swelm | Sat, 6 Jun 2009 | 6:02pm |
| Re: teal ID | =?windows-1252?Q?Jim | Sat, 6 Jun 2009 | 10:16pm |
| Re: teal ID | =?windows-1252?Q?Jim | Sat, 6 Jun 2009 | 10:16pm |
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To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
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Subject: Blog update
From: "Allen T. Chartier" <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 1 Jun 2009 6:04am
Hello everyone,
I have updated the blog post I made yesterday. Several closet entomologists
:-) have corrected my initial identification of the "bug", one birder has
provided a photo of a similar melanistic Black-and-white Warbler from
Pennsylvania in 2003 (his photo is not posted), and I've put forth an
explanation for why Canada Geese would be observed migrating north this time
of year. I've also replied to those who have commented directly on the blog
site.
Go to: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com
Allen T. Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
Inkster, Michigan, USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Website: www.amazilia.net
HummerNet: www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet
Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every day, the hummingbird eats its own weight in food.
You may wonder how it weighs the food.
It doesn't. It just eats another hummingbird.
-- Steven Wright
=========================================
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Subject: Re: RFI on Pine Flycatcher, Empidonax affinis
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 2009 11:02am
Was the identification of this bird as a Pine Flycatcher ever confirmed?
I found this page by Chris Benesh suggesting that the call notes were
better for Least Flycatcher:
http://chrisbenesh.com/Chris_Benesh_Site/Choke_Canyon_Flycatcher.html
Has there been a resolution to this bird's identity?
Thanks.
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 22:17:24 -0700, Chris Benesh <cdbenesh(AT)COX.NET> wrote:
>Hi Martin et al.,
>
>In answer to Martin's query about online stuff, I decided to throw
>together a web page with a few images of a Pine Flycatcher from Sinaloa
>this past late winter/early spring. I also included a small sound file
>with the typical contact note of this species. You can check it out
>at:
>
>http://members.cox.net/fgibenesh/pineflycatcher.html
>
>One can find published call notes and song (Steve NG Howell) on
>Geoffrey Keller's, Bird Songs of Southeastern Arizona and Sonora,
>Mexico CD.
>
>Steve Howell does a very good treatment of this species (and all empids
>for that matter) in his Birds of Mexico and Northern Central America.
>Pine Flycatcher is rather like crossing a Western Flycatcher with a
>Hammond's Flycatcher, yet sounding in call note, more like a Dusky
>Flycatcher. I have seen fewer than say 40-50 over the years, so my
>impressions are still being formed. I am usually struck by the
>brightness of the plumage (ala Western), the clear, bright orange
>mandible, and the rather long primary projection (ala Hammond's). The
>throat seems most often yellowish, though appears whitish on others
>(perhaps related to feather wear). The bill is typically narrow,
>though it seems to vary a bit among birds I have seen. This species is
>typically detected by its heavy-sounding "whit" note, much like a
>Dusky, but fuller. I have yet to really get any sort of response from
>birds using Howell's song recording, though I am usually trying between
>January and April. Hope this helps a bit.
>
>Chris
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Chris Benesh
>32°09.512N, 110°46.248W
>Tucson, Arizona
>cdbenesh(AT)cox.net
>
>
>"Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open."
>James Dewar
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
SF Birding Classes start Sept. 15 http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/
Western Field Ornithologists http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/
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Subject: Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon
From: Leith McKenzie <loinneilceol(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 2009 2:03pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I have received requests for additional images of the Pewee, but I have no =
other images made from different viewing angles.=C2=A0 Perhaps Mr. Denny wi=
ll post some of his images for us.=C2=A0=20
I have received questions about the wing bars.=C2=A0 As I viewed the bird t=
hrough the bins, my perception was that both wingbars were very bold and th=
e same color (I would call the color off white.)=C2=A0 Indeed, the wingbars=
were the first thing that I noticed about the bird.
So far, I have received no feedback suggesting that this bird is a Western =
Wood Pewee.=C2=A0 Is any one going to make that case, or do we all think th=
at it is an Eastern Wood Pewee?
=C2=A0=20
On May 24, 2009, I photographed a silent Wood Pewee at Fields in southeast =
Oregon.=C3=82=C2=A0 I am interested in any and all comments about this bird=
in particular, and the problem of separating Eastern and Western Wood Pewe=
es.=C3=82=C2=A0 As I read the archives and more recent publications on this=
issue, it seems that our body of knowledge is moving towards the position =
that yes there are differences between the two species that can be seen in =
the field.=C3=82=C2=A0=20
The images of the bird can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30397515@N07/3581970405/
In addition to what is seen in the photos, I was able to clearly
observe the tail formula. On this bird the R1 feathers were the
longest, and the R5 feathers were the shortest, with even graduation in
between.
Leith McKenzie
=E2=80=9CEach of us is in truth an idea of the Great Gull and an unlimited =
idea of freedom.=E2=80=9D
Jonathan Livingston Seagull=0A=0A=0A
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
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Subject: Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 2009 2:07pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
These pictures aren't very good for a difficult id. As far as I can see the=
lower mandible looks to have a fairly extensive dark tip (a strong indicat=
or of Western), but it might be an artifact of the photos.
________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01@=
LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Leith McKenzie
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:04 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] A Wood Pewee from Oregon
I have received requests for additional images of the Pewee, but I have no =
other images made from different viewing angles. Perhaps Mr. Denny will po=
st some of his images for us.
I have received questions about the wing bars. As I viewed the bird throug=
h the bins, my perception was that both wingbars were very bold and the sam=
e color (I would call the color off white.) Indeed, the wingbars were the =
first thing that I noticed about the bird.
So far, I have received no feedback suggesting that this bird is a Western =
Wood Pewee. Is any one going to make that case, or do we all think that it=
is an Eastern Wood Pewee?
On May 24, 2009, I photographed a silent Wood Pewee at Fields in southeast =
Oregon.=C2 I am interested in
any and all comments about this bird in particular, and the problem of sep=
arating Eastern and Western Wood Pewees.=C2 As I read the archives and mor=
e recent publications on this issue, it seems that our body of knowledge is=
moving towards the position that yes there are differences between the two=
species that can be seen in the field.=C2
The images of the bird can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30397515@N07/3581970405/
In addition to what is seen in the photos, I was able to clearly
observe the tail formula. On this bird the R1 feathers were the
longest, and the R5 feathers were the shortest, with even graduation in
between.
Leith McKenzie
"Each of us is in truth an idea of the Great Gull and an unlimited idea of =
freedom."
Jonathan Livingston Seagull
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbir=
dwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: Re: Attwater Myiarchus Revisited
From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 1 Jun 2009 3:48pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Mary Beth and all: re: Myiarchus flycatcher from Texas=20
After reading Brush's comment on the Myiarchus flycatcher from Attwater PCN=
WR, I was concerned about my ID of this bird as an Ash-throated Flycatcher =
based on the tail pattern. While the tail pattern seemed to fit fine for a =
late season spring Ash-throated, with muted dark tear-drop pattern extendin=
g from the narrow dark outer web across the tail tips, I don't feel comfort=
able basing an ID on one plumage feature. Brown-crested has a fair amount o=
f orange color to the inner webs, but it extends in a straight line from th=
e base of the tail to the tip, with no dark shading across the tail tip.=20
I had put together a composite photo of four Myiarchus flycatchers for my n=
ew book, and thought that the feet on the Texas bird looked too big for Ash=
-throated, since Brown-crests have huge feet compared to other Myiarchus (s=
ee photo composite). I then went to my composite photo and added the Texas =
bird to it (although not sized to scale like the other images). After doing=
this, I noticed that the feet were not that big, and in fact were in range=
with Ash-throated and not Brown-crested. I also compared the pale whitish =
throat and upper breast to the typical gray throat and upper breast on Brow=
n-crested, and thought that the Texas bird had a pale whitish throat and up=
per breast more typical of Ash-throated as well. As for the comment that th=
e bird was too yellow underneath, this is not the case. Ash-throated can sh=
ow very strong pale yellow coloration to the underparts, with Brown-crested=
a bit deeper in tone and with a clearer cut line between a grayer breast a=
nd yellow belly. The Texas bird seems to have a pale yellow belly, and the =
defining line is indistinct between the yellow color and whitish gray upper=
breast, more typical of Ash-throated.=20
The bill is hard to judge, but it looks fine for the length of Ash-throat, =
with Brown-crested having a longer bill. The depth of the bill is hard to c=
ompare with Ash-throated because my photo of a fresh fall bird (2nd from ri=
ght) has its bill angled slightly and depth cannot be judged. The tail leng=
th also looks better for Ash-throated, with a shorter, more proportional ap=
pearance compared to the longer tail of Brown-crested. The grayer coloratio=
n to the face in comparison to my photo is a result of very warm light on m=
y bird, and these colors are hard to use with photos due to variability of =
lighting conditions and photo preparation by the observer. The composite ph=
oto may be accessed at the following link: http://www.kevinkarlsonphotograp=
hy.com/gallery/v/Myiarchus+flycatcher+photo/ =C2=A0. The bird on the right =
is a LaSagra's Flycatcher. I did not include Dusky-capped because they have=
dark undertail patterns. Great-crested is 2nd from the left, with the Texa=
s bird the left bird.=20
These Myiarchus flycatchers are hard to judge from a single photo, with fie=
ld observation and careful notes the best strategy for a solid ID. However,=
the comparison with other Myiarchus flycatchers in my composite photo seem=
to point towards Ash-thoated. I welcome comments from observers more exper=
ienced with Brown-crested, since this is a species that I feel lacking in f=
ield experience.=20
Kevin Karlson=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Mary Beth Stowe" <MiriamEagl(AT)AOL.COM>=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:43:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Attwater Myiarchus Revisited=20
Hi, all!=C2=A0 Since there were no pro-Brown-crested Flycatcher posts on th=
is forum, I'm forwarding this message from fellow Texbirder Brush Freeman, =
who isn't on the ID Frontiers listserv.=C2=A0 Apparently there are other pr=
o-Brown-crested folks out there; I'd like to hear their opinions!=C2=A0 Her=
e's the link to the first photo again, and then you can scroll forward:=20
http://www.pbase.com/miriameaglemon/image/111811706=20
Thanks!=C2=A0 Take care,=20
MB=20
Mary Beth Stowe=20
McAllen, TX=20
www.miriameaglemon.com=20
Hi Mary Beth:=C2=A0 I know it is a long time ago, but I keep forgetting.=C2=
=A0 Your=20
flycatcher at Attwater PCNWR is actually a BCFL, I thought it was at the=20
time but Karlson seemed so sure of it, but I have since checked the tail on=
=20
a dozen or so and there is nothing wrong with the tail on yours.=C2=A0 The =
bill=20
is also too large and the animal is too yellow below.=C2=A0 I think with a =
side=20
by side image of this and a good ATFL these things would stick out well.=20
Brush Freeman=20
.=20
Discover the variety of Bisquick=C2=AE mix. Get Recipes & Savings Now.=20
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Subject: Lilian's Meadowlark songs
From: Nathan Pieplow <npieplow(AT)INDRA.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 2009 8:20pm
Hello all,
I've just realized my long ambition of starting a blog dedicated to
bird sound identification. My first post is a quick introduction to
web resources on Red Crossbill types, and my second post is on the
identification of Lilian's Meadowlark by song. I have postulated
some ID criteria and put up something of an audiovisual tutorial with
a little sound quiz at the end. I would love comments:
www.earbirding.com/blog.
Many thanks,
Nathan Pieplow
Boulder, CO
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Subject: Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon (long and boring)
From: Leith McKenzie <loinneilceol(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 2 Jun 2009 9:56am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Two people have suggested that the bill coloration indicates Western Wood P=
ewee.=C2=A0 I refer them to:
Field Identification of Western & Eastern Wood-Pewees by Cin-Ty Lee, Andrew=
Birch, and Ted Lee Eubanks
Quote: "One field mark that is often depicted in field
guides is bill color (Fig. 6). There is a general
tendency for Eastern to have a largely or completely
pale-orange or pale-yellow lower mandible.
In contrast, the lower mandible on Western
is generally duskier, ranging from pale at the
base to completely dark underneath. We emphasize
that considerable care must be taken with
this field mark. Some Easterns occasionally have
dusky lower mandibles extending from the tip
and halfway to the base of the bill, overlapping
with Western=E2=80=99s lower mandible. In addition, some
Westerns can have almost entirely pale lower
mandibles. We thus caution that this field mark
alone is not reliable."
So the bill color of the Fields bird can be indicative of either species.
I have uploaded a highly enhanced view of the Fields Pewee, showing that th=
e tail extension is much longer than the primary extension and that the tai=
l is held cocked below a line running along the back and primaries.=C2=A0 I=
tems number 3 and 4 in summary of the above referenced article.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30397515@N07/3589670576/
As I said yesterday, the wing bars of the subject bird were both very bold =
and the same off-white color.=C2=A0 Item number 2 in the article.
In addition, the underparts Fields Pewee did not have the strongly vested a=
ppearance that is characteristic of Western Wood Pewee.=C2=A0 Instead the d=
ark areas were sharply attenuated in the middle of the chest, giving way to=
a very pale belly.=C2=A0 In the bins, this effect was quite pronounced, gi=
ving the bird a horizontally banded appearance, instead of a vertically ves=
ted appearance. Item number 6 in article.
Finally, there is a the fact that I took note of the bird as something unus=
ual on May 23, and that when I first saw Mike Denny early on May 24, he was=
studying reference materials on Wood Pewees because he had taken note of t=
he same bird. We both have spent several thousands of hours in the field ob=
serving birds, including hundreds of Western Wood Pewees. The gestalt of th=
is bird caused us, indepently, to take a closer look.
Leith
=E2=80=9CEach of us is in truth an idea of the Great Gull and an unlimited =
idea of freedom.=E2=80=9D
Jonathan Livingston Seagull=0A=0A=0A
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01
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Subject: Re: A Wood Pewee from Oregon (long and boring)
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 2 Jun 2009 10:05am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
No one's claiming it's 100% diagnostic, but the fact that that 'occasionall=
y' an Eastern Wood-Pewee can show a Western Wood-Pewee bill pattern isn't v=
ery supportive when claiming a rare vagrant. E. Wood-Pewees are very rare i=
n CA and OR and the chances of one of the occasional ones that shows a W. W=
ood-pewee like bill pattern turning up are not very high. In general many i=
d features are variable enough individually that odd birds will show a feat=
ure associated as 'diagnostic' for another species. However, it doesn't mea=
n that feature immediately has no value in separating the two species.
________________________________
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01@=
LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Leith McKenzie
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:57 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] A Wood Pewee from Oregon (long and boring)
Two people have suggested that the bill coloration indicates Western Wood P=
ewee. I refer them to:
Field Identification of Western & Eastern Wood-Pewees<http://www.aba.org/bi=
rding/v40n5p34.pdf> by Cin-Ty Lee, Andrew Birch, and Ted Lee Eubanks
Quote: "One field mark that is often depicted in field
guides is bill color (Fig. 6). There is a general
tendency for Eastern to have a largely or completely
pale-orange or pale-yellow lower mandible.
In contrast, the lower mandible on Western
is generally duskier, ranging from pale at the
base to completely dark underneath. We emphasize
that considerable care must be taken with
this field mark. Some Easterns occasionally have
dusky lower mandibles extending from the tip
and halfway to the base of the bill, overlapping
with Western's lower mandible. In addition, some
Westerns can have almost entirely pale lower
mandibles. We thus caution that this field mark
alone is not reliable."
So the bill color of the Fields bird can be indicative of either species.
I have uploaded a highly enhanced view of the Fields Pewee, showing that th=
e tail extension is much longer than the primary extension and that the tai=
l is held cocked below a line running along the back and primaries. Items =
number 3 and 4 in summary of the above referenced article.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30397515@N07/3589670576/
As I said yesterday, the wing bars of the subject bird were both very bold =
and the same off-white color. Item number 2 in the article.
In addition, the underparts Fields Pewee did not have the strongly vested a=
ppearance that is characteristic of Western Wood Pewee. Instead the dark a=
reas were sharply attenuated in the middle of the chest, giving way to a ve=
ry pale belly. In the bins, this effect was quite pronounced, giving the b=
ird a horizontally banded appearance, instead of a vertically vested appear=
ance. Item number 6 in article.
Finally, there is a the fact that I took note of the bird as something unus=
ual on May 23, and that when I first saw Mike Denny early on May 24, he was=
studying reference materials on Wood Pewees because he had taken note of t=
he same bird. We both have spent several thousands of hours in the field ob=
serving birds, including hundreds of Western Wood Pewees. The gestalt of th=
is bird caused us, indepently, to take a closer look.
Leith
"Each of us is in truth an idea of the Great Gull and an unlimited idea of =
freedom."
Jonathan Livingston Seagull
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbir=
dwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
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Subject: Another Wood Pewee in the West...
From: Gavin Bieber <kingbird77(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 3 Jun 2009 4:18pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello Birders=2CAlthough I don't really want to overload the listserve with=
flycatcher queries it is a nice change from the winter Gull discussions I =
suppose. Separating Pewees without hearing them sing is an ID challenge ov=
er which I have little confidence=2C but I would like to submit another bir=
d for this groups consideration.=20
While birding at a desert hot springs in SE Arizona Jake Mohlmann and I loc=
ated an interesting Pewee which (unfortunately) remained silent. One photo=
has been posted at http://adventurebirding.blogspot.com/ and others can be=
forwarded to interested parties upon request.
The white throat=2C evenly pale and unvested underparts (lower belly had a =
yellowish wash which did not come out in the pics)=2C extensively pale lowe=
r mandible (nearly all pale from underneath as shown on other pics)=2C even=
ly bright wingbars and apparently longer tailed look were noted. In additi=
on to this bird was another Pewee nearby which was noticeably duskier acros=
s the chest and flanks=2C with a darker throat and back=2C and nearly all d=
ark lower mandible. This bird was photographed for comparison and is also =
viewable at the URL given. Any comments on this bird would be appreciated=
=2C=20
Gavin Bieber=20
Kingbird77(AT)hotmail.comTucson=2C AZ Senior Leader=2CWINGS
www.wingsbirds.com
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Little Egret with dark eyes
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 4 Jun 2009 1:19pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
About a month ago I photographed an adult Little Egret Egretta garzetta =
with dark greyish eyes and a pink to purple facial skin. Pictures can be =
seen here:=20
=
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta1=
.htm
scroll down to the last pictures.
As a rule the eyes of Little Egrets are pale yellow in both adults and =
juveniles. Are there any other records of Little Egrets with dark eyes?
Cheers, Norman
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Subject: Fw: [MEBirdNet] Little Egret with dark eyes
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 4 Jun 2009 3:54pm
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Dear Ozkan,
The resemblance of your bird and mine is stunning! Even the colours of =
the facial skin are the same. If you go back to my pictures you will =
find more pictures taken during breeding time April/May, all taken in =
Western Europe i.e. in Spain, France and The Netherlands. None of these =
birds have dark eyes while their facial skin is pale blue-ish.=20
It is said that one race i.e. the race garzetta occurs from all the way =
from Spain to Japan. Could it be, I wonder, that the differences we see =
in our pictures reflect a genuine difference between the Little Egrets =
of the West and East Mediterranean?
Regards, Norman
From: "ozkan uner | europho.to" <ozkan(AT)europho.to>
To: <MEBirdNet(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MEBirdNet] Little Egret with dark eyes
> Hi Norman
>
> May be because of breeding time colors change. I dont have any =
scientific
> information but i find two photos from nearly same period of the year,
> similar little egret photos. Photos taken in Meric Delta, near Greek=20
> border
> of Turkey. I attach them to the mail for you, mines eyes are also =
looks a
> bit greyish. I havent noticed it before.
> photos can be seen at:
http://www.europho.to/081-egrettagarzetta-2928.jpg
http://www.europho.to/082-egrettagarzetta-2929.jpg
> Warm Regards
> ozkan uner | www.europho.to
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
>> About a month ago I photographed an adult Little Egret Egretta =
garzetta
>> with dark greyish eyes and a pink to purple facial skin. Pictures can =
be
>> seen here:
>>
>>
>> =
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta1=
.htm
>>
>>
>> scroll down to the last pictures.
>>
>> As a rule the eyes of Little Egrets are pale yellow in both adults =
and
>> juveniles. Are there any other records of Little Egrets with dark =
eyes?
>> Cheers, Norman
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Subject: Re: Little Egret with dark eyes
From: Harry Hussey <hhussey3(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 5 Jun 2009 4:54am
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Hi Norman,
=A0=A0 That Little Egret certainly seems quite unusual. I was wondering, ho=
wever, if the rather odd loral colouration may have something to do with th=
e transition between the normal blue-grey, as seen by most birds for much o=
f the year, and the reddish colour attained briefly each year during the he=
ight of the courtship period (a time when the feet also become reddish)? I =
concede that the darker iris is harder to explain, but I do know that, in s=
ome gulls, for example, iris colour can also change with the onset of breed=
ing condition, presumably due to changes in hormone levels, so perhaps this=
also could be the case with herons/egrets, at least occasionally.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards,
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Harry
--- On Thu, 4/6/09, Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL> wrote:
From: Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Little Egret with dark eyes
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Date: Thursday, 4 June, 2009, 9:19 PM
=A0
About a month ago I photographed an adult Little Egret Egretta garzetta wit=
h dark greyish eyes and a pink to purple facial skin. Pictures can be seen =
here:=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0 http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzett=
a1.htm
=A0
=A0
scroll down to the last pictures.
=A0
As a rule the eyes of Little Egrets are pale yellow in both adults and juve=
niles.=A0Are there any other records of Little Egrets with dark eyes?
Cheers, Norman=A0
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbir=
dwg01=20
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html=20
=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: Re: Another Wood Pewee in the West...
From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 Jun 2009 2:10pm
Hello, Birders.
Gavin Bieber, kingbird77(AT)HOTMAIL.COM, writes:
> Hello Birders, Although I don't really want to overload
> the listserve with flycatcher queries it is a nice change
> from the winter Gull discussions I suppose. Separating
> Pewees without hearing them sing is an ID challenge over
> which I have little confidence, but I would like to submit
> another bird for this groups consideration.
There was an article last year in Birding on separating the wood-pewees. The
main emphasis in the article (by Cin-Ty Lee, Andrew Birch, and Ted Eubanks) is
on "dimensionless" characters such as the ratio of wing length to tail length.
It also contains a review and synthesis of some of the more traditional field
marks (e.g., wing bars, bill color) for separating the two species.
The article can be downloaded from the ABA website:
http://aba.org/birding/v40n5p34.pdf
Ted Floyd
tedfloyd57(AT)hotmail.com
Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado
-------------------------------
Ted Floyd
Editor, Birding
-------------------------------
Please support the American Birding Association: Click on
http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=884482 to search the internet.
Every search provides support to the ABA's programs in Education, Conservation,
and Publications.
Please visit the website of the American Birding Association:
http://www.aba.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: teal ID
From: Mitch <mitch(AT)UTOPIANATURE.COM>
Date: 6 Jun 2009 2:27pm
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Hi all,
I am interested in opinions on this teal
just recently poorly digiscoped:
http://www.utopianature.com/TEAL.html
Thank you,
Mitch Heindel
Utopia, TX
www.utopianature.com
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Subject: teal ID
From: Mitch <mitch(AT)UTOPIANATURE.COM>
Date: 6 Jun 2009 2:27pm
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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all,
I am interested in opinions on this teal
just recently poorly digiscoped:
http://www.utopianature.com/TEAL.html
Thank you,
Mitch Heindel
Utopia, TX
www.utopianature.com
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
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Subject: Re: Little Egret with dark eyes
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 6 Jun 2009 6:02pm
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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi Harry and all,
I would be surprised if hormones were not involved. The question =
is if this phenomenon is widespread and common or restricted to a =
geographic region. What is rather surprising, is that it does not seem =
to have been noticed before. At least that is what it looks like so far.
Norman
Harry Hussey wrote: >That Little Egret certainly seems quite =
unusual. I was wondering, however, if the rather odd loral colouration =
may have something to do with the transition between the normal =
blue-grey, as seen by most birds for much of the year, and the reddish =
colour attained briefly each year during the height of the courtship =
period (a time when the feet also become reddish)? I concede that the =
darker iris is harder to explain, but I do know that, in some gulls, for =
example, iris colour can also change with the onset of breeding =
condition, presumably due to changes in hormone levels, so perhaps this =
also could be the case with herons/egrets, at least occasionally.
=
=20
--- On Thu, 4/6/09, Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL> =
wrote:
About a month ago I photographed an adult Little Egret Egretta =
garzetta with dark greyish eyes and a pink to purple facial skin. =
Pictures can be seen here:=20
=
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta1=
.htm
scroll down to the last pictures.
As a rule the eyes of Little Egrets are pale yellow in both adults =
and juveniles. Are there any other records of Little Egrets with dark =
eyes?
Cheers, Norman=20
=20
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: Re: Little Egret with dark eyes
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 6 Jun 2009 6:02pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi Harry and all,
I would be surprised if hormones were not involved. The question =
is if this phenomenon is widespread and common or restricted to a =
geographic region. What is rather surprising, is that it does not seem =
to have been noticed before. At least that is what it looks like so far.
Norman
Harry Hussey wrote: >That Little Egret certainly seems quite =
unusual. I was wondering, however, if the rather odd loral colouration =
may have something to do with the transition between the normal =
blue-grey, as seen by most birds for much of the year, and the reddish =
colour attained briefly each year during the height of the courtship =
period (a time when the feet also become reddish)? I concede that the =
darker iris is harder to explain, but I do know that, in some gulls, for =
example, iris colour can also change with the onset of breeding =
condition, presumably due to changes in hormone levels, so perhaps this =
also could be the case with herons/egrets, at least occasionally.
=
=20
--- On Thu, 4/6/09, Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL> =
wrote:
About a month ago I photographed an adult Little Egret Egretta =
garzetta with dark greyish eyes and a pink to purple facial skin. =
Pictures can be seen here:=20
=
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta1=
.htm
scroll down to the last pictures.
As a rule the eyes of Little Egrets are pale yellow in both adults =
and juveniles. Are there any other records of Little Egrets with dark =
eyes?
Cheers, Norman=20
=20
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01
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Subject: Re: teal ID
From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jim_Pike?= <jpike44(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 6 Jun 2009 10:16pm
Hi Mitch,
It's interesting how different photos/angles/postures suggest different
possible identifications. However, numbering your photos (and sketch) as 1-
12, I'd say that photos 8 and 10 look dead-on for female Green-winged Teal
(notwithstanding the fact that the bird does show an unusually bold cheek
stripe). Pointing away from Garganey is the obscure, rather than bold
supercilium, and the lack of a contrastingly pale chin and upper throat.
In addition, there appears to be some orange at the bill base (better for
Green-winged), as suggested in photos 2 and 5. So, in the absence of
better photographs, or solid observations of the wing pattern in flight,
Green-winged Teal would be the default choice.
Jim Pike
Huntington Beach, CA
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Subject: Re: teal ID
From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jim_Pike?= <jpike44(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 6 Jun 2009 10:16pm
Hi Mitch,
It's interesting how different photos/angles/postures suggest different
possible identifications. However, numbering your photos (and sketch) as 1-
12, I'd say that photos 8 and 10 look dead-on for female Green-winged Teal
(notwithstanding the fact that the bird does show an unusually bold cheek
stripe). Pointing away from Garganey is the obscure, rather than bold
supercilium, and the lack of a contrastingly pale chin and upper throat.
In addition, there appears to be some orange at the bill base (better for
Green-winged), as suggested in photos 2 and 5. So, in the absence of
better photographs, or solid observations of the wing pattern in flight,
Green-winged Teal would be the default choice.
Jim Pike
Huntington Beach, CA
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