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ID-FRONTIERS for June 7-13, 2009
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Dark-eyed Egret | Norman D.van Swelm | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 7:48am |
| Re: Dark-eyed Egret | Matt Fraker | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 8:15am |
| Re: Dark-eyed Egret | Norman D.van Swelm | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 9:17am |
| 4/12 Gull | Paul Conover | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 10:11am |
| Re: Dark-eyed Egret | Peter Pyle | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 10:14am |
| Gray-collared Becard in Arizona | =?windows-1252?Q?Kur | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 3:56pm |
| Possible Least x Pied-billed Grebe Hybrid (USA) | Marcel Such | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 6:13pm |
| Another mystery gull | Steve Sosensky | Tue, 9 Jun 2009 | 7:24pm |
| Re: Another mystery gull | phoebetria(AT)AOL.COM | Wed, 10 Jun 2009 | 3:29am |
| An Interesting Plover | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D=3 | Wed, 10 Jun 2009 | 8:04pm |
| Re: An Interesting Plover | Lethaby, Nick | Wed, 10 Jun 2009 | 8:20pm |
| Re: An Interesting Plover | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr | Thu, 11 Jun 2009 | 12:21am |
| Re: An Interesting Plover | Ben Miller | Thu, 11 Jun 2009 | 12:31am |
| Re: An Interesting Plover | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D=3 | Thu, 11 Jun 2009 | 10:22am |
| Re: Interesting Plover RFI | Matt Fraker | Fri, 12 Jun 2009 | 4:38pm |
| Re; InterestingPlover RFI with link included | Matt Fraker | Fri, 12 Jun 2009 | 4:42pm |
| Re: Re; InterestingPlover RFI with link included | Harry Lehto | Fri, 12 Jun 2009 | 11:06pm |
| Arctic Loon perhaps | Bill Hill | Sat, 13 Jun 2009 | 7:31pm |
| Re: Arctic Loon perhaps | Julian Hough | Sat, 13 Jun 2009 | 8:18pm |
| Re: Arctic Loon perhaps | Phil Davis | Sat, 13 Jun 2009 | 11:01pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Dark-eyed Egret
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 7:48am
All pictures now available of Dark-eyed Egrets have been uploaded here:
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta2%20-%20.htm
My sincere thanks go to Ozkan Uner, Dick Hoek, Mike Parker and all others
who have commented so far.
Norman Deans van Swelm
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Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dark-eyed Egret
From: Matt Fraker <frakerpovc(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 8:15am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings, everyone --
I just find it interesting that a somewhat similar discussion, if I am not
mistaken, took place in April with Kenneth Allaire's Striated Heron --?I
believe?that was another situation where?iris issues and facial color
contributed to some of the identification confusion.
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0904c&L=birdwg01&T=0&P=2818
Remember the rule -- if it comes up a third time someone needs to write
a?monograph?on "The Week-Long Iris and Facial Color Changes of Miscellaneous
Ardeids"
Maybe we can put this in that new field guide next to the "Red Crossbills --
They're Easy" monograph authored by Marquis du Sade.
Matt Fraker
Bloomington, Illinois
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:48 am
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dark-eyed Egret
All pictures now available of Dark-eyed Egrets have been uploaded here:?
?
?
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta2%20-%20.htm?
?
My sincere thanks go to Ozkan Uner, Dick Hoek, Mike Parker and all others who
have commented so far.?
Norman Deans van Swelm ?
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01?
?
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html?
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----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dark-eyed Egret
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 9:17am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
And while you study the subject, you may want to know how Little Egrets =
look in their week of glory, see here:
=
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta1=
.htm
Cheers, Norman
>I just find it interesting that a somewhat similar discussion, if I am =
not mistaken, took place in April with Kenneth Allaire's Striated Heron =
-- I believe that was another situation where iris issues and facial =
color contributed to some of the identification confusion.
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=3Dind0904c&L=3Dbirdwg01&T=3D0&P=
=3D2818
Remember the rule -- if it comes up a third time someone needs to write =
a monograph on "The Week-Long Iris and Facial Color Changes of =
Miscellaneous Ardeids"
Maybe we can put this in that new field guide next to the "Red =
Crossbills -- They're Easy" monograph authored by Marquis du Sade.
Matt Fraker
Bloomington, Illinois
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:48 am
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dark-eyed Egret
All pictures now available of Dark-eyed Egrets have been uploaded here:=20
=20
=
http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta2=
%20-%20.htm=20
=20
My sincere thanks go to Ozkan Uner, Dick Hoek, Mike Parker and all =
others who have commented so far.=20
Norman Deans van Swelm =20
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=3Dbirdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: 4/12 Gull
From: Paul Conover <zoiseaux(AT)cox.net>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 10:11am
Seems from the lull in traffic that everyone must be either
passing a great time birding, or not finding anything too ambiguous. I
hope some of you are still online out there.
The gull on the link below was seen on 4/12/2009. I'm not sure what it
is, so there won't be any prize attached--sorry. This is strictly out of
curiosity, in the hopes of expert input. Presumably, gulls being gulls
and turning up well outside of their ranges, this picture could've been
taken anywhere. Since range can help or hinder bird ID, I'd like to see
if anyone would like to make a go of its ID without location being
mentioned. If you saw it in your area, what would you call it?
I'm new to Picasa. I hope the link works.
http://picasaweb.google.com/zoiseaux2/412Gull#
Thanks,
Paul Conover
[location undisclosed]
[but easy enough to find out]
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Subject: Re: Dark-eyed Egret
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 10:14am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
The best information I could find on Ardeid soft-part color changes
in North America was in the following:
Meyerriecks, A.J. 1960. Comparative breeding behavior of four species of North
American herons. Publ. Nuttall Ornith. Club 2:1-158.
I agree that it could use a revision.
Peter
At 08:14 AM 6/9/2009, Matt Fraker wrote:
>Greetings, everyone --
>
>I just find it interesting that a somewhat similar discussion, if I
>am not mistaken, took place in April with Kenneth Allaire's Striated
>Heron -- I believe that was another situation where iris issues and
>facial color contributed to some of the identification confusion.
>
><http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0904c&L=birdwg01&T=0&P=2818>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0904c&L=birdwg01&T=0&P=2818
>
>Remember the rule -- if it comes up a third time someone needs to
>write a monograph on "The Week-Long Iris and Facial Color Changes of
>Miscellaneous Ardeids"
>
>Maybe we can put this in that new field guide next to the "Red
>Crossbills -- They're Easy" monograph authored by Marquis du Sade.
>
>Matt Fraker
>Bloomington, Illinois
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:48 am
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dark-eyed Egret
>
>All pictures now available of Dark-eyed Egrets have been uploaded here:
>
>
><http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta2%20-%20.htm>http://www.radioactiverobins.com/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta2%20-%20.htm
>
>
>My sincere thanks go to Ozkan Uner, Dick Hoek, Mike Parker and all
>others who have commented so far.
>Norman Deans van Swelm
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
><http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>
>Archives:
><http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html>http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
>----------
>Wanna slim down for summer? Go to
><http://www.aolhealth.com/diet/weight-loss-program/?ncid=emlcntusheal00000001>America
>Takes it Off to learn how.
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Gray-collared Becard in Arizona
From: =?windows-1252?Q?Kurt_Radamaker?= <kurtrad(AT)MEXICOBIRDING.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 3:56pm
Hello all,
A stunning first US Record of Gray-collared Becard showed up last weekend
in the Chiricahuas. Several excellent photos have been posted to the
Arizona Field Ornithologist Website at:
http://www.azfo.org/gallery/2009/html2/OTHE_Becard_West_20090605.html
In viewing the photos the bird seems to have an excessive amount of feather
wear, and it appears to be missing a bunch of body feathers on the right
side just under the breast. In the last photo these missing or injured
feathers create a lump on the side.
I'm curious of what others think of the amount of wear and missing
feathers.
Best
Kurt Radamaker
Fountain Hills, AZ
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Subject: Possible Least x Pied-billed Grebe Hybrid (USA)
From: Marcel Such <mpsuch(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 6:13pm
--001636d348a085854a046bf40a79
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi All,
While working through my photos from a recent trip to south Texas, I came
across this photo of a grebe (link below). At the time the photograph was
taken, I assumed this was a Least Grebe (Tachybaptus dominicus). A few days
ago, I looked at this photograph more closely and realized that something
was amiss! I wonder if it could be a Least x Pied-billed Grebe hybrid. Pyle
II (2008) says that this hybrid has never been recorded before. The photo
was taken at Estero Llano Grande State Park, Hidalgo County, on February 23,
2009. I sent the photo to Tony Leukering, and he suggested sending it on to
this list.
I've posted the photo on our blog...
http://suchboys.blogspot.com/2009/06/odd-looking-grebe.html
--
Marcel Such
NW of Lyons, CO, USA
mpsuch(AT)gmail.com
suchboys.blogspot.com
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--001636d348a085854a046bf40a79
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0Hi All,<div><br></div><div>While working through my photos from a recent=
trip to south Texas, I came across this photo of a grebe (link below). =A0=
At the time the photograph was taken, I assumed this was a Least Grebe (<sp=
an style=3D"font-style:italic">Tachybaptus dominicus</span>). =A0A few days=
ago, I looked at this photograph more closely and realized that something =
was amiss! =A0I wonder if it could be a Least x Pied-billed Grebe hybrid. P=
yle II (2008) says that this hybrid has never been recorded before.=A0=A0Th=
e photo was taken at Estero Llano Grande State Park, Hidalgo County, on Feb=
ruary 23, 2009. =A0I sent the photo to Tony Leukering, and he suggested sen=
ding it on to this list.</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(85, 26, 139);text-decoration:underline"><br><=
/span></div><div>I've posted the photo on our blog...</div><div><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(85, 26, 139);text-decoration:underline"><a href=3D"http:/=
/suchboys.blogspot.com/2009/06/odd-looking-grebe.html" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://suchboys.blogspot.com/2009/06/odd-looking-grebe.html</a><br>
</span></div><div><div><br></div><div>-- <br>Marcel Such<br>NW of Lyons, CO=
, USA<br><a href=3D"mailto:mpsuch(AT)gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mpsuch@gmail=
.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://suchboys.blogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">such=
boys.blogspot.com</a><br>
</div></div>
<p>
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<p>
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
<p>
--001636d348a085854a046bf40a79--
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Another mystery gull
From: Steve Sosensky <steve(AT)SOSENSKY.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 2009 7:24pm
Hi All,
Who'da thunk we'd have GullChat in June?
I photographed this gull
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30373047&id=1504442860&saved
today in Roseau Co. MN in a field in the South Shore WMA. It looked
to me to like a Mew Gull with black bill and legs. It was with
Riing-billeds and was about the same size and mantle color. Ideas anyone?
Good birding,
Steve
Steve Sosensky <steve at sosensky dot com>
Aliso Viejo CA
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Subject: Re: Another mystery gull
From: phoebetria(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 10 Jun 2009 3:29am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Well, I will jump in and offer a non-hybrid possibility - Black-billed Gull
(Chroicocephalus bulleri) from New Zealand.? Not too far from Minnesota.? I
don't know of any other reports in North America, though Red-billed Gull has
been documented a few times in the mid-Atlantic states (always assumed to be
escapees, though records of Laughing Gull, for instance, are not treated as
suspicious in Australasia).? But I think the "Silver Gull" complex is popular in
zoological settings in North America - worth investigating.
Ned Brinkley
Cape Charles, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sosensky <steve(AT)SOSENSKY.COM>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:23 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Another mystery gull
Hi All,?
?
Who'da thunk we'd have GullChat in June??
?
I photographed this gull
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30373047&id=1504442860&saved
today in Roseau Co. MN in a field in the South Shore WMA. It looked
to me to like a Mew Gull with black bill and legs. It was with
Riing-billeds and was about the same size and mantle color. Ideas anyone??
?
Good birding,?
Steve?
?
Steve Sosensky <steve at sosensky dot com>?
Aliso Viejo CA ?
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01?
?
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html?
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Subject: An Interesting Plover
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D=3FISO-8859-1=3FQ=3FGreg=5FNeise=3F=3D?= <gregneise(AT)ILBIRDS.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2009 8:04pm
Hi all,
I was digging through shots from last fall, and while reminiscing about
relocating the Mountain Plover (1st IL record) during the last hurrah of a
hurricane that swept up into Illinois, I came across a bird in the
background of two photos that looks like it can't be anything other than a
Eurasian Dotterel.
I would like it if anyone with an opinion/experience would take a look at
the pictures, and share above mentioned opinion with me.
Here's where the pics are:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=22740.0
...and please note that we're still not up to 100% speed yet at IBF (I moved
it to a new hosting provider yesterday), and it may take between 1 second
and 130 seconds to load the page. But it will not time out or fail to
connect. Just be patient with it for a day or two.
If you would share your thoughts on the forum, that would be great...but via
ID Frontiers or personal email is fine also.
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
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Subject: Re: An Interesting Plover
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2009 8:20pm
Greg:
While the bird has a strong superficial resemblance to a breeding Eurasian
Dotterel on plumage, I think some of this might be due to photographic effects.
Although I have only seen a few dotterels over the years (mostly in the UK many
years ago), I would make the following comments:
1. Every bird I have seen in fall (all juvs, don't know about adults) hasn't
showed such a striking dark belly/pale breast band as this.
2. The bird looks large and rangy compared to the bird in front of it, which
doesn't look like a small peep. Dotterels are rather compact.
3. It looks like it is wading around in water, which I have never seen or heard
of Dotterels doing, although the hurricane conditions might not have given it
too many options in this case!
4. In the Mountain Plover shot lower in the sequences, the bird to the right of
the MOPO has a supercilium and striking dark belly similar to the bird in your
photos. I think this may be the same bird. I would suspect an AMGP that looks
funny in the picture - as I can't think of any other explanation for the breast
band.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_Neise?=
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:04 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] An Interesting Plover
Hi all,
I was digging through shots from last fall, and while reminiscing about
relocating the Mountain Plover (1st IL record) during the last hurrah of a
hurricane that swept up into Illinois, I came across a bird in the
background of two photos that looks like it can't be anything other than a
Eurasian Dotterel.
I would like it if anyone with an opinion/experience would take a look at
the pictures, and share above mentioned opinion with me.
Here's where the pics are:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=22740.0
...and please note that we're still not up to 100% speed yet at IBF (I moved
it to a new hosting provider yesterday), and it may take between 1 second
and 130 seconds to load the page. But it will not time out or fail to
connect. Just be patient with it for a day or two.
If you would share your thoughts on the forum, that would be great...but via
ID Frontiers or personal email is fine also.
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: Re: An Interesting Plover
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 11 Jun 2009 12:21am
Same here: can't see a Dotterel in this bird, and I see Dotterel more or less
every year. Nick's suggestion seems to the be reasonable.
Only remark: I remember a juv Dotterel in the Camargue a few years ago in
September which was associating with a flock of Calidris and Charadrius on
mudflats. Most Camargue records of Dotterel are on short grass meadows or bare
grouns with scattered bush. But even this one was not seen wading in water...
Pierre-André Crochet
CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive
1919, route de Mende
34293 Montpellier cedex 5
France
tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile)
+ 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office)
fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38
-----Message d'origine-----
De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Lethaby, Nick
Envoyé : 11 June 2009 05:20
À : BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] An Interesting Plover
Greg:
While the bird has a strong superficial resemblance to a breeding Eurasian
Dotterel on plumage, I think some of this might be due to photographic effects.
Although I have only seen a few dotterels over the years (mostly in the UK many
years ago), I would make the following comments:
1. Every bird I have seen in fall (all juvs, don't know about adults) hasn't
showed such a striking dark belly/pale breast band as this.
2. The bird looks large and rangy compared to the bird in front of it, which
doesn't look like a small peep. Dotterels are rather compact.
3. It looks like it is wading around in water, which I have never seen or heard
of Dotterels doing, although the hurricane conditions might not have given it
too many options in this case!
4. In the Mountain Plover shot lower in the sequences, the bird to the right of
the MOPO has a supercilium and striking dark belly similar to the bird in your
photos. I think this may be the same bird. I would suspect an AMGP that looks
funny in the picture - as I can't think of any other explanation for the breast
band.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_Neise?=
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:04 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] An Interesting Plover
Hi all,
I was digging through shots from last fall, and while reminiscing about
relocating the Mountain Plover (1st IL record) during the last hurrah of a
hurricane that swept up into Illinois, I came across a bird in the background of
two photos that looks like it can't be anything other than a Eurasian Dotterel.
I would like it if anyone with an opinion/experience would take a look at the
pictures, and share above mentioned opinion with me.
Here's where the pics are:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=22740.0
...and please note that we're still not up to 100% speed yet at IBF (I moved it
to a new hosting provider yesterday), and it may take between 1 second and 130
seconds to load the page. But it will not time out or fail to connect. Just be
patient with it for a day or two.
If you would share your thoughts on the forum, that would be great...but via ID
Frontiers or personal email is fine also.
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
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Subject: Re: An Interesting Plover
From: Ben Miller <bamiller(AT)TALK21.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2009 12:31am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greg,
=A0
I agree with the points Nick makes; from a European perspective, on this im=
age your bird certainly could not be identified as a Eurasian Dotterel, and=
I'd agree with Nick's suggestion of an AGP impacted by photo effect.
=A0
Cheers,
=A0
Ben
UK
--- On Thu, 11/6/09, Lethaby, Nick <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM> wrote:
From: Lethaby, Nick <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] An Interesting Plover
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 4:20 AM
Greg:
While the bird has a strong superficial resemblance to a breeding Eurasian =
Dotterel on plumage, I think some of this might be due to photographic effe=
cts. Although I have only seen a few dotterels over the years (mostly in th=
e UK many years ago), I would make the following comments:
1. Every bird I have seen in fall (all juvs, don't know about adults) hasn'=
t showed such a striking dark belly/pale breast band as this.
2. The bird looks large and rangy compared to the bird in front of it, whic=
h doesn't look like a small peep. Dotterels are rather compact.
3. It looks like it is wading around in water, which I have never seen or h=
eard of Dotterels doing, although the hurricane conditions might not have g=
iven it too many options in this case!
4. In the Mountain Plover shot lower in the sequences, the bird to the righ=
t of the MOPO has a supercilium and striking dark belly similar to the bird=
in your photos. I think this may be the same bird. I would suspect an AMGP=
that looks funny in the picture - as I can't think of any other explanatio=
n for the breast band.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01@=
LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_Neise?=3D
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:04 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] An Interesting Plover
Hi all,
I was digging through shots from last fall, and while reminiscing about
relocating the Mountain Plover (1st IL record) during the last hurrah of a
hurricane that swept up into Illinois, I came across a bird in the
background of two photos that looks like it can't be anything other than a
Eurasian Dotterel.
I would like it if anyone with an opinion/experience would take a look at
the pictures, and share above mentioned opinion with me.
Here's where the pics are:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=3D22740.0
...and please note that we're still not up to 100% speed yet at IBF (I move=
d
it to a new hosting provider yesterday), and it may take between 1 second
and 130 seconds to load the page. But it will not time out or fail to
connect. Just be patient with it for a day or two.
If you would share your thoughts on the forum, that would be great...but vi=
a
ID Frontiers or personal email is fine also.
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
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Subject: Re: An Interesting Plover
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D=3FISO-8859-1=3FQ=3FGreg=5FNeise=3F=3D?= <gregneise(AT)ILBIRDS.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2009 10:22am
Thanks all for the comments and thoughts. The general consensus is that this
bird is an unusually marked American Golden Plover. There have been a few
specific comments that I'd like to address:
NL:
2. The bird looks large and rangy compared to the bird in front of it, which
doesn't look like a small peep. Dotterels are rather compact.
## The bird in front is a Buff-breasted Sandpiper.
3. It looks like it is wading around in water, which I have never seen or
heard of Dotterels doing, although the hurricane conditions might not have
given it too many options in this case!
## Indeed, that day set the record for the most rain in one calendar day in
northern Illinois history. From the IL State Climatologists Office: "Chicago
(at O'Hare airport) reported 6.64 inches on September 13, setting a new
record for the most rain in one calendar day in Chicago's history. The old
record was 6.49 inches on August 14, 1987. Chicago climate records date back
to 1871."
The fields that the birds were in are part of a sod farm based on sandy
soil...normally pretty dry, and it's where we Chicagoans go for our fall
Buff-breasted, Baird's and White-rumped sandpipers...as well as migrating
plovers. On this day, the irrigation ditches were overflowing, shooting
water into the fields through the drainage culverts. A field that in the
morning was mostly dry became a 3-foot deep lake with a flock of terns
feeding over it by 4 pm!
Interestingly, one of the first photos of a fall Dotterel that I found in my
Google searching was taken 19 October 2008 by Stuart Fisher at Titchwell
RSPB Reverve, Norfolk, England, UK:
http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/eurasian-dotterel-charadrius-morinellus/migrant-group-golden-plover
It shows a Dotterel standing belly-deep in water surrounded by European
Golden Plover. Also that bird certainly does appear smaller and more compact
than the European Goldens around it...but it's also certainly not as
striking a difference as, say, a peep among Dowitchers.
4. In the Mountain Plover shot lower in the sequences, the bird to the right
of the MOPO has a supercilium and striking dark belly similar to the bird in
your photos. I think this may be the same bird. I would suspect an AMGP that
looks funny in the picture - as I can't think of any other explanation for
the breast band.
## I took a look at that shot, and I don't think it's the same bird for a
couple of reasons: 1) that bird has a black belly and vent, while the bird
in question has a pale belly and vent, and 2) that bird appears to have a
pale forehead, while the bird in question has a dark forehead.
1. Every bird I have seen in fall (all juvs, don't know about adults) hasn't
showed such a striking dark belly/pale breast band as this.
##I've posted the full-size images, as they came out of the camera in the
original thread on IBF. The very first picture that I posted has the
contrast boosted and makes the breast band look a bit more pronounced that
it really is, I think.
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=22740.msg27301#msg27301
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
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Subject: Re: Interesting Plover RFI
From: Matt Fraker <frakerpovc(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2009 4:38pm
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Greetings, everyone --
I was just?requesting information on this bird more from the perspective of
education rather than any attempt at debating or attempting to document (which
the photo quality would admittedly prevent). I fell for this bird hook, line,
and sinker, and I am still not sure I wouldn't do it again.
I know there was some discussion about the water, but I think that was addressed
by the extreme weather conditions and the fact that there was also a Mountain
Plover present. I also know size was a big issue, especially in that second
photo. It seems odd that the bird in question would go from comparable in size
to a Buff-breasted Sandpiper (the first and better photo) to a bird hulkingly
bigger than a Killdeer -- I don't know what the hell that thing is in the second
photo -- it looks like someone left their pinata in the meadow. The third photo
has the bird looking comparable or smaller than the Golden Plover (as an
FYI,?four very fine birders in two separate parties of two thought they had
a?Pacific Golden in this same field).
Plumage was only discussed briefly, from the?important point of view of what you
would expect a bird in this situation's breastband to appear like, and
regarding the lighting conditions. But more specifically -- and this is where
I'm struggling -- ?strictly from a plumage discussion (and to re emphasize, for
education,?NOT debate), would anyone be willing to just briefly discuss what was
wrong on that first and third photo for Dotterel? I'm probably just looking for
the consolation prize of not being crazy (been looking for that one for quite
some time now...)
Any back channel input would be greatly appreciated;?and of course,?light
ridicule is always welcome.
Thanks for your time and your patience.
Matt Fraker
Bloomington, Ill
but thankfully in Jackson Hole, Wyo for the moment...
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Subject: Re; InterestingPlover RFI with link included
From: Matt Fraker <frakerpovc(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2009 4:42pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Sorry -- here is the link to the photos:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=22740.0
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Subject: Re: Re; InterestingPlover RFI with link included
From: Harry Lehto <hlehto(AT)UTU.FI>
Date: 12 Jun 2009 11:06pm
Matt,
I sent privately some comments to Greg - before seeing anybody else's
comments - and as they seem still relevant, I'll forward them to you and the
list...
Greg,
I'm not quite sure which plumage would you suggest your bird to be. To me
this bird doesn't in fact look like a dotterel at all. For example the head
looks too big and pronounced, and the neck appears too long. In your pictures
further down the web page the dark crown looks quite off for what I am used to
seeing in a dotterel. As a final point, the habitat seems too wet and the grass
too long for a typical dotterel habitat - they tend to prefer ploughed fields,
very short grass (say < inch), or areas where there is short grass mixed in a
sandy/sandish soil. I have seen dotterels during stopovers in Southern Finland
(and in UK) and on breeding grounds in Lapland (Northern Finland). I don't have
my dotterel pictures very accessible, as they are old fashioned slides, but
there is a good collection at the following web site. When you look at the
pictures note the dates and the postures of the birds. The pictures taken at
Saariselkä, Inari, Ivalo and Utsjoki are at breeding
grounds - all other birds are during migration.
(all on one line)
http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?sp=find〈=eng&order=nro,paiva%20DESC&species=14540
alternatively you may want to go at
www.tarsiger.com and click on the UK flag on the left and make a species search
on dotterel.
Best Regards
Harry
hlehto(AT)utu.fi
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Subject: Arctic Loon perhaps
From: Bill Hill <billhill(AT)REDSHIFT.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 2009 7:31pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Rich Stallcup found this loon in the Moss Landing harbor in Central =
California today. He thought it looked good for an Arctic. Several of =
us observed the bird today and found many characteristics we liked. the =
throat is definitely tinged green not purple. There may or may not be =
white on the swimming bird depending on its speed. The pictures =
describe the bird well other than the green tinge which shows up black
Have fun
http://www.birdshotphotography.com/Arctic%20Loon/index.html
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Subject: Re: Arctic Loon perhaps
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 13 Jun 2009 8:18pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Bill,
From the images, do you not feel that the head shape, bill size and =
shape, nape color, flank color and thickness of the neckstripes fit a =
typical Pacific?
What characteristics on this bird do you feel fit Arctic Loon?=20
Best,
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Hill=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:21 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Arctic Loon perhaps
Rich Stallcup found this loon in the Moss Landing harbor in Central =
California today. He thought it looked good for an Arctic. Several of =
us observed the bird today and found many characteristics we liked. the =
throat is definitely tinged green not purple. There may or may not be =
white on the swimming bird depending on its speed. The pictures =
describe the bird well other than the green tinge which shows up black
Have fun
http://www.birdshotphotography.com/Arctic%20Loon/index.html
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: =
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Subject: Re: Arctic Loon perhaps
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 2009 11:01pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Bill, et al.
FWIW, I was able to capture an image of an Arctic and Pacific Loon
juxtaposed at Nome earlier this spring ...
http://birdimages.posterous.com/nome-ak-spring-2009-images
In at least one of your images (#1964), I think the bill on your bird
appears to favor the profile of a Pacific. Also, I would say that the
number and thickness of the neck stripes seem to support Pacific.
Phil
>Bill,
>
> From the images, do you not feel that the head shape, bill size and
> shape, nape color, flank color and thickness of the neckstripes fit
> a typical Pacific?
>
>What characteristics on this bird do you feel fit Arctic Loon?
>
>Best,
>
>Julian Hough,
>CT, USA
><mailto:jrhough1(AT)snet.net>jrhough1(AT)snet.net
>
>www.naturescapeimages.net
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:billhill(AT)REDSHIFT.COM>Bill Hill
>To: <mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:21 PM
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Arctic Loon perhaps
>
>Rich Stallcup found this loon in the Moss Landing harbor in Central
>California today. He thought it looked good for an Arctic. Several
>of us observed the bird today and found many characteristics we
>liked. the throat is definitely tinged green not purple. There may
>or may not be white on the swimming bird depending on its
>speed. The pictures describe the bird well other than the green
>tinge which shows up black
>
>Have fun
>
><http://www.birdshotphotography.com/Arctic%20Loon/index.html>http://www.birdshotphotography.com/Arctic%20Loon/index.html
==================================
Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA
mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
==================================
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